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Stuart Cumberland & The "Florence Maybrick Diary"

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  • #16
    Washington Post (Washington, D.C.)
    9 June 1913

    NOTED ALIENIST IS DEAD

    Dr. L. Forbes Winslow Was Expert In Maybrick and Fleming Cases
    London, June 8.

    Dr. L. Forbes Winslow, who was an expert engaged in the principal lunacy investigations during the last quarter of a century in England and in many of the United States, died today from heart disease.

    Dr. Winslow was born in London in 1844 and was lineal descendant of Edward Winslow, first governor of New Plymouth, one of the leaders of the Pilgrim Fathers who left England in the Mayflower in 1620.

    Among the most celebrated English cases in which Dr. Winslow participated were the Whitechapel crimes, the Old Kent murder, the Penge mystery, and the case of Mrs. Maybrick. In the United States he investigated the Mrs. Fleming murder case and others almost as notorious.

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    • #17
      The Washington Post
      26 June 1911

      INSANITY EXPERT DESCRIBES MURDERERS HE HAS KNOWN
      The Washington Post
      26 June 1911

      From the New York Times

      Dr. Forbes L. Winslow was the founder of the British Hospital for Mental Disorders in London. He is vice president of the Medico Legal Congress, New York, and chairman of the psychological department.

      He engaged in the principal lunacy investigations during the last quarter of a century in England; and he has also been engaged in a similar way in the United States, being retained as expert in several cases.

      Among his chief cases in England may be mentioned the Penge mystery, the Balham mystery, the Old Kent murder, the Taylor case, the case of the Rev. Dr. Dodwell, who shot at the master of rolls, the Whitechapel crimes, Mrs. Dyer's case, Mrs. Maybrick's case, having charge of the medical petition, and presented it in person; Devereux's case, and the Lord Townshend lunacy inquiry.

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      • #18
        Hi How and all.

        It is true that an alleged three volume diary of Florence Maybrick's was touted around various publishers in 1889. I don't think Cumberland ever got to see them in the flesh, and as we don't know a single word of what they allegedly contained, (although it was said that the contents were rather sensational), we can't possibly know if Florrie hinted at any suspicion that James was in fact Jack.

        What I do find a little bit interesting is that it was said that the handwriting varied considerably between the volumes, but all three were apparently penned by the same hand.

        It has been suggested by some that our present diary could be volume 3 with all earlier entries removed..!

        Regards to all.

        Paul

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        • #19
          Thanks for this information, Nemo and Paul.

          Chris
          Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
          https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

          Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
          Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

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          • #20
            There's only 181 pages of the main text in Spiro's book, and I bet a few of those are illustrations

            I hope it's not too brief

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Nemo View Post
              There's only 181 pages of the main text in Spiro's book, and I bet a few of those are illustrations

              I hope it's not too brief
              A lot of it might be written in that magic invisible ink.
              Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
              https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

              Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
              Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

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              • #22
                CG,Neems...

                I've set up a thread for the book.
                To Join JTR Forums :
                Contact Howard@jtrforums.com

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                • #23
                  Of course, if it ever did transpire that the three Florie diaries not only existed in 1889, but fingered her old man as none other than Saucy Jacky, they'd say the modern forgers must have known about it and based their fake diary around this 'sensational' snippet of previously unpublished information.

                  In truth, it would be incredible luck for Maybrick fanciers to find any such hard evidence that Flo really did think he was JtR. But for me it would strengthen my gut feeling that someone wrote the diary in the immediate wake of the trial - someone who possibly read Flo's diaries and ran with the idea of turning Jim into the very Devil, since his widow had been turned into a she-devil.

                  So Spiro seems to have got his wires a bit crossed here.

                  The trick is not to dabble with the diary if one can't be arsed to get one's facts straight. It makes one wonder what other facts have been buggered about with.

                  Love,

                  Caz
                  X
                  I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

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                  • #24
                    If your observation is true, Caz...about the diary being concocted following Mrs. Maybrick's trial....another mystery would be why it never appeared until it was unleashed in the early 1990's.
                    Seems like a lot of work all for naught.
                    Then again, the unreleased manuscript of Bernard O'Donnell's took years to put together and apparently, all it took for Mr. O'Donnell to decide to not release it to the public, was the release of Donald McCormick's 1959 work, The Identity of JTR.

                    Either our boy has his wires crossed Caz..or his disdain (& imagination) for the Maybrick saga, shared by many, was workin' overtime.

                    I wonder whether...as an aside and I won't elaborate on it any further...if there are any words in the Maybrick Diary which were not in use at the time...such as "zipper".
                    To Join JTR Forums :
                    Contact Howard@jtrforums.com

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                    • #25
                      Hi Howie,

                      Well Spiro is pissing on his own cornflakes by repeating a baseless claim that the real Flo Maybrick wrote about the real Jim being the real ripper - if he wants his readers to believe, at the same time, that the 'diary' found in 1992 has no connection with reality whatsoever.

                      Or is he actually trying to be objective, albeit by offering duff information on either side?

                      If our dear diarist (or satirist?) was your typical late Victorian hoaxer, one might expect the horrid thing to be deposited in a place where it was expected to be found sooner rather than later, and to give the finder a very nasty surprise - if only until it became obvious they'd been 'had' (when the handwriting was compared with Jim's, for instance).

                      The place could be significant and highly relevant to the text, with next to no chance of tracing the book itself back to the hoaxer - a bit like the kidney that plopped its way through Lusk's letterbox and for all the sender knew could have been disposed of without a word and no publicity, ever. If a highly literate medical student could have gone to the trouble to wind Lusk up with that gruesome parcel and letter, with no guarantee of a reaction, why could a similarly enterprising student or Punch writer not have done the same with the diary, depositing it in Battlecrease House, for a Maybrick family member, servant or new occupant to come across and muse over?

                      Once deposited, the diary hoaxer may have had no chance of going back to it, or to engineer its discovery, and could have died waiting for news that anyone else even knew of its existence. It would have been old news by then anyway, and its satirical impact would have been lost. Who could have guessed what a pandora's box would eventually be opened when Mike Barrett got his hands on it and Paul Feldman got in on the act? You couldn't make it up.

                      My idea is quite sane compared with the known facts.

                      Love,

                      Caz
                      X
                      I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by How Brown View Post
                        I wonder whether...as an aside and I won't elaborate on it any further...if there are any words in the Maybrick Diary which were not in use at the time...such as "zipper".
                        As usual, nothing like that has been proved, Howie.
                        I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

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                        • #27
                          Since the watch and diary seem to be older than a modern hoax, a research question I keep asking myself is, "How/when/why did James Maybrick's name get mixed up with JtR?" (I do not believe he was JtR.)

                          The press built up a feast of sensationalism with JtR in 1888 and their next big event was Florence Maybrick in 1889. It is normal that JtR, the last--also the first--big sensation would somehow be connected to the next. I have found various articles and even sentences that bring JtR into the troubles of Florence Maybrick. So the names Maybrick and JtR were linked in print by 1889 which could provide a kernel of inspiration for any creative folks from then to now.

                          Google search coughed up mention of the Florence Maybrick diaries and I found this thread criticising the book that mentions them, from which I will provide a snippet below.

                          We have other threads on Stuart Cumberland. My point here is that Cumberland offered his services for the JtR case and then it was suggested he use his talents to help Florence Maybrick. Whether or not there were ever any F.M. diaries, it looks to me that this is another example of the names and cases, JtR and Maybrick, being tenuously linked by 1889.
                          Attached Files
                          The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                          • #28
                            This is the article which appeared in Stuart Cumberland's 'Mirror' newspaper, 16 September 1889. The cover and very next column was about the Pinchin Street torso. And going by the article if Jack the Ripper was mentioned in the diary it would have been all over the newspapers.

                            IMG_20190714_231402.jpg

                            Rob

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                            • #29
                              Thanks, Rob!

                              I was beginning to think there was no FM diary of any kind. If an enterprising soul found/concocted/wrote/etc. such a document, it is not much of a stretch to wonder if the James Maybrick diary came into existence about the same time. That could explain the likely older age.

                              I reread the diary today with Sam Flynn's commentary. We have a thread that begins with that. IMO, it feels like the diary was written by two people or the trashy commentary was added to something that might have been in existence.

                              I wonder if the Maybricks' servants ever wrote anything. Some of the reported actions of those servants, IMO, were questionable.
                              The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                              • #30
                                On another Maybrick thread I wondered if the Maybrick/JtR diary could have morphed out of the so-called Florence Maybrick diary. I came back here to reread the clip Rob posted in #28 below.

                                Whatever the FM diary was, it was described as a "shilling shocker". It does not take too much imagination to define that.

                                It also says Florence had some interesting ideas about Eve and the serpent. Even a slightly dirty mind can think that through.

                                Is it possible someone was trying to cash in on semi-pornographic Maybrick diaries as far back as 1889? Could that be the source of the JtR diary which tests forensically to earlier than modern hoax?

                                Was there any Maybrick-based pornography out there somewhere?

                                JtR gave the press prostitution, sex, depravity, horror, etc. at a time when these things were not discussed politely. That died down and they couldn't get it started again with the drab death of Alice MacKenzie. But along comes Florence Maybrick, poisoner, adulteress, etc. Forbidden topics could once again occupy the mainstream press. Journalists, digging for extra sensation, even managed sometimes to get JtR and the name Maybrick into the same sentence.
                                The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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