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Peterborough Maybrick DNA 'No Match'

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  • #31
    I'm not getting anywhere with Pye and definitely not Maybrick. I've almost run out of names completely because the Maybrick tree is sparse. All I got now is Wainwright which doesn't help. I have to find a new name, preferably uncommon. Any ideas?

    I think I'll look at descendants of JM's relatives instead.

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    • #32
      It looks like Sage was right. I definitely didn't prove a positive.

      I couldn't do it so now I'm ready to rule out the Peterborough Maybricks from what I can see in the results. Another Somerton Man case where the presumptive daughter is not a daughter?

      It's 99% sure that you have shared DNA from your great great grandfather. It should be there but I can't find any shared or common ancestors with or relatives of James Maybrick. Only 2 matches show up in Lancashire out of 90 that give their location. That should be telling. I've messaged the donor to see what he says.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Markus Aurelius Franzoi View Post
        I'm not getting anywhere with Pye and definitely not Maybrick. I've almost run out of names completely because the Maybrick tree is sparse. All I got now is Wainwright which doesn't help. I have to find a new name, preferably uncommon. Any ideas?

        I think I'll look at descendants of JM's relatives instead.
        Wainwright is Susannah Maybrick’s maiden name - James mother.
        Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
        JayHartley.com

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        • #34
          I tried that and some of the names of the sisters-in-law and wives of cousins like Nixon (Mary Ellen Nixon) in case the descendants have short trees. But no luck.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Markus Aurelius Franzoi View Post
            I tried that and some of the names of the sisters-in-law and wives of cousins like Nixon (Mary Ellen Nixon) in case the descendants have short trees. But no luck.
            Have you looked at Ellison? There is a strange cross over between the Maybricks and Ellisons.
            Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
            JayHartley.com

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            • #36
              I tried Ellison too. I did find some Ellisons from Cheshire in the trees of his cousin matches, but they are too far back in time to be part of the alleged Maybrick intersection.

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              • #37
                This experiment was first done to see if forum member Jen's great grandfather was James Maybrick, not if the Peterborough Maybrick donor was in fact descended from James Maybrick. It came up negative but the result would now have to be classified as inconclusive or meaningless if the supposed Maybrick descendant was not actually descended from James.

                I could do the whole thing over the same way with a definite Maybrick but it's not necessary. A second contributor, from a relative-candidate found in advance and asked to submit, is not necessary as the database with trees is big enough to find cousins from almost every branch. You can just look for your match and see if the DNA results fit the suspected shared ancestor in the right time frame based on the amount of shared DNA. And I'm already satisfied with the cousin match pointing to someone else that was done without a second contributor found in advance.

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                • #38
                  There is a photograph in Paul Feldman’s book that alleges Elizabeth Woolston / Maybrick is pictured with Sarah Ann Robertson in the garden of Cottisbrook Street in New Cross circa 1925. Elizabeth would have been around 20 at the time and Sarah Ann well into her late 80s.

                  I have no idea where the photo comes from or how we can confirm the caption is correct but Feldman was right about Sarah Ann being Christiana’s daughter and not her niece (even though it took 20 odd years later for me to prove it!).

                  If it is true then the link is real - then we just haven’t found it yet.
                  Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
                  JayHartley.com

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                  • #39
                    Yes, I’m sure the link to James Maybrick is real. The only question is if James fathered all five of Sarah Ann Robertson’s children or which if any. I have contact with one descendant of one child so any negative DNA result is not definitive.

                    I’ll be trying names from the possibly-related Stepney branch of Maybricks from the 15 and 1600s to see if they come up in the cousin matches for Peterborough Paul.

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                    • #40
                      I finally found some intriguing name matches for the same area that could be linked:

                      Paul has some matches with Maybanke and Winterborn from Holborn and Hackney from the 17 and 1800s respectively.

                      In depth James Maybrick Family Trees have Maybricks from Westminster London (Charles Maybrick 1st b 1743) who might be related to a Maybrick/Winterborn union from Stepney in the 15 and 1600s.

                      I’ll look more closely later.

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                      • #41
                        This is for those who might not be following the trail.

                        I believe 'Peterborough Paul' is 'Paul C Porter' born in 1963.

                        If this is the case, his father was indeed George C Porter, who married Sylvia F Nicholls. George C Porter was son of George Samuel Porter, who was married to Emily Minetta Maybrick.

                        This means Emily Minetta Maybrick was Peterborough Paul's grandmother. Exactly as he described in his Geni post in 2013.

                        Her mother was Margaret Minetta Maybrick (his great grandmother), and if the legend is to be believed, James Maybrick would be his great, great grandfather.

                        At this point, Peterborough Paul's DNA should match James Maybrick's at 6.25%. Without being able to get James Maybrick's DNA to test, other avenues are being explored to see mathematically that a case could be made using distant cousins.
                        Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
                        JayHartley.com

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                        • #42
                          Thanks for the rundown, JW. So far, it’s inconclusive either way. I had the wrong Charles Maybrick in London when I came up with Winterborn. James’ Maybricks were living in Westminster.

                          I’m going to have to start looking at shared common names from both Lancashire and Middlesex.

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                          • #43
                            One of the most glaring shortcomings in finding a James Maybrick link is with IDing James Maybrick's mother and her mother, etc, and then making sense of what the records and trees are saying. Let me explain.

                            JM's mother is Susanna Wainwright (1816-1880).
                            Her mother is Mary Ann Leviston (1791-1836)
                            Mary Ann Leviston married Joseph Beresford in Tasmania in 1808 where she died.
                            How is she also married to James Wainwright (1793-1823) and having Susanna in Liverpool in 1816?

                            https://www.ancestry.ca/family-tree/...64379243/facts
                            https://www.ancestry.ca/family-tree/...49685957/facts

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                            • #44
                              I found links to the Beresford line but I guess, if Susanna Wainwright isn't a Beresford, it doesn't mean anything.

                              I doubt many would agree with the methodology anyway. JW Sage, I'm sure at least, would appreciate it.

                              I think it makes sense to look at the second marriage in case there were descendants who carried the Mary Ann Leviston gene as Paul would also if he was descended from her and James Maybrick. You don't need an actual Maybrick link, so to speak, just anything James Maybrick had in him.

                              P.S. I mistakenly looked at the Beresford line, which is presumably the line of the second husband of James Maybrick's grandmother. It was a mistake because Paul wouldn't be carrying that line unless he was of the line, and neither would James Maybrick.

                              Any of Mary Ann Leviston/Beresford's descendants who are on AncestryDNA with trees wouldn't just skip over Mary Ann to Beresford's ancestors. Unless of course, they don't know their own direct ancestry going back that far but include the Beresford ancestors in their cousins' tree where the cousins do know their own genealogy. That's unlikely.

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                              • #45
                                Are you sure you have the right Mary Ann Leviston? The one I have was born in 1791 and married James Wainwright in 1816 in Liverpool. Death 1865 in Liverpool.
                                Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
                                JayHartley.com

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