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  • Number 7 Riversdale Road had not been known as Battlecrease

    "One evening as I returned home from my office in Baker Street, together with Martin Howells, my wife informed me that a man with a Liverpool accent had telephoned wanting to speak with me.He had not left a name or phone number, and would ring back later. Martin and I had dinner
    together, as my family had eaten earlier. Who had made the phone call? I was excited and on edge.

    It was not long before I got my answer. It was one of the electricians who had worked at Mr. Dodd’s house. The chap shall remain nameless: I have no wish to embarrass him.

    He informed me that he overheard two of his colleagues, during a tea break while working at the house, mentioning ‘something to do with Battlecrease’. Number 7 Riversdale Road had not been known as Battlecrease since Mr. Fletcher Rogers took over the property after James Maybrick’s death.
    "

    from Paul Feldman's Jack The Ripper: The Final Chapter

    I am interested in this assertion by Feldman, that the house had not been referred to as Battlecrease at the time this all kicked off. I would not be surprised if it was rarely referred to as Battlecrease....but not at all?

  • #2
    This is from 1903. I wonder if the names of the building were documented in leases etc

    Battlecrease from Famous Crimes.jpg

    Rob

    Comment


    • #3
      There are three adverts in the Liverpool Mercury in 1888 appealing for the return of a lost dog. All three mention Battlecrease. The earliest one, on 7th August, gives house number 6A.

      Comment


      • #4
        In the Liverpool Mercury obit on Rogers for Dec 21st 1891 it's mentioned that he dropped the name and used only the number.


        The only references to Battlecrease after 1889 seem to be in the context of someone writing about Maybrick.

        Comment


        • #5
          This thread suggests that Florence came up with the name :


          http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=6204

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SirRobertAnderson View Post
            "One evening as I returned home from my office in Baker Street, together with Martin Howells, my wife informed me that a man with a Liverpool accent had telephoned wanting to speak with me.He had not left a name or phone number, and would ring back later. Martin and I had dinner
            together, as my family had eaten earlier. Who had made the phone call? I was excited and on edge.

            It was not long before I got my answer. It was one of the electricians who had worked at Mr. Dodd’s house. The chap shall remain nameless: I have no wish to embarrass him.

            He informed me that he overheard two of his colleagues, during a tea break while working at the house, mentioning ‘something to do with Battlecrease’. Number 7 Riversdale Road had not been known as Battlecrease since Mr. Fletcher Rogers took over the property after James Maybrick’s death.
            "

            from Paul Feldman's Jack The Ripper: The Final Chapter

            I am interested in this assertion by Feldman, that the house had not been referred to as Battlecrease at the time this all kicked off. I would not be surprised if it was rarely referred to as Battlecrease....but not at all?
            Hi Robert

            That is my understanding, that Battlecrease was the name of the house while the Maybricks lived there but not later. That the electricians would use the name "Battlecrease" that had not been used since that time might therefore be a bit suspicious, might it not?

            I just checked Christopher Jones' The Maybrick A to Z. Chris makes no mention that Fletcher Rogers changed the name of the house when he and his family moved into it after the occupancy by the Maybricks.

            Best regards

            Chris
            Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
            https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

            Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
            Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by SirRobertAnderson View Post
              "One evening as I returned home from my office in Baker Street, together with Martin Howells, my wife informed me that a man with a Liverpool accent had telephoned wanting to speak with me.He had not left a name or phone number, and would ring back later. Martin and I had dinner
              together, as my family had eaten earlier. Who had made the phone call? I was excited and on edge.

              It was not long before I got my answer. It was one of the electricians who had worked at Mr. Dodd’s house. The chap shall remain nameless: I have no wish to embarrass him.

              He informed me that he overheard two of his colleagues, during a tea break while working at the house, mentioning ‘something to do with Battlecrease’. Number 7 Riversdale Road had not been known as Battlecrease since Mr. Fletcher Rogers took over the property after James Maybrick’s death.
              "

              from Paul Feldman's Jack The Ripper: The Final Chapter

              I am interested in this assertion by Feldman, that the house had not been referred to as Battlecrease at the time this all kicked off. I would not be surprised if it was rarely referred to as Battlecrease....but not at all?
              Hi Robert
              I think Feldy would have meant that Battlecrease didn't have that name after Rogers took it on, not that it wasn't commonly known and referred to by that name. We often remarked that some places remained known by old names and nicknames for years. In Leeds, where I lived back then, many people called a local pub "The Friendly" long after the landlord whose demeanor was recalled in the nickname had moved on. By all accounts he was about as friendly and welcoming as an unhappy undertaker, hence the ironic nickname.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Paul View Post
                In Leeds, where I lived back then, many people called a local pub "The Friendly" long after the landlord whose demeanor was recalled in the nickname had moved on. By all accounts he was about as friendly and welcoming as an unhappy undertaker, hence the ironic nickname.
                I had a similar experience at my local in Kent, where the landlord was known - ironically - as "Jolly John" or "Happy John". I personally thought he was great, but I can see why others might have found him a bit unprepossessing. When the pub was reviewed in the Good Beer Guide it got a good write-up, but it also said that the pub had "a bit of a grumpy landlord". John was so chuffed with this that he beamingly showed it to all the regulars, and even contemplated having it printed on T-shirts.
                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                "Suche Nullen"
                (F. Nietzsche)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Chris G. View Post
                  Hi Robert

                  That is my understanding, that Battlecrease was the name of the house while the Maybricks lived there but not later. That the electricians would use the name "Battlecrease" that had not been used since that time might therefore be a bit suspicious, might it not?

                  I just checked Christopher Jones' The Maybrick A to Z. Chris makes no mention that Fletcher Rogers changed the name of the house when he and his family moved into it after the occupancy by the Maybricks.

                  Best regards

                  Chris
                  Chris. I think the electricians would be using the word "Battlecrease" due to it featuring prominently at the start of the diary one of them had recently found, so not so suspicious really.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You beat me to it, Paul.

                    As for Mike Barrett, he has the address of Battlecrease in his infamous 'research notes' down as 6 Riversdale Road, when it is actually 7.

                    IIRC, he claimed that when researching the diary he went to the wrong house at first.

                    Putting the pieces together, my belief is that Mike didn't know, when phoning the literary agency about the diary, that it may have been stolen that very morning from that house, and certainly could not have appreciated the enormous significance of this particular address in relation to the diary, otherwise he would never have put his head above the parapet on this day of all days, but would have left himself a safer interval of time between the two events. He wasn't trying to set up a Battlecrease provenance, using the lifting of the floorboards in Maybrick's old bedroom as evidence - quite the reverse in fact. He was adamant that the diary had come from Tony Devereux the previous year. When he learned what the electricians were saying about it coming from the house, he went into denial mode and spent the rest of his days there.

                    I suspect Mike imagined he was simply helping out by trying to 'fence' an old book signed Jack the Ripper, which a mate had shown him over a pint without letting on when, where or how he found it. That would also help explain Mike's use of a false name when first calling Doreen - and perhaps why he made that other call, to enquire about obtaining a Victorian diary, if he wondered what the hell he was actually fencing.

                    I put up a long post over at casebook at the end of last month, exploring some alternatives if Mike used Devereux to conceal or disguise the diary's true origins. I'm quite surprised it hasn't been pounced on yet and trashed by any of the regulars - not a single response.

                    It can be read here:

                    http://forum.casebook.org/showthread...082#post434082

                    Good weekend all.

                    Love,

                    Caz
                    X
                    I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Caroline Brown View Post
                      When he learned what the electricians were saying about it coming from the house, he went into denial mode and spent the rest of his days there.
                      Caz do you think Mike and the Electricians (sounds like a Genesis offshoot band!) all had points in the Diary? In the sense of shares? It would explain a lot.

                      Originally posted by Caroline Brown View Post
                      I suspect Mike imagined he was simply helping out by trying to 'fence' an old book signed Jack the Ripper, which a mate had shown him over a pint without letting on when, where or how he found it.
                      I don't think this was the first time Barrett fenced or bought something coming out of a renovation. After all, he dealt in "scrap metal".

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SirRobertAnderson View Post


                        I don't think this was the first time Barrett fenced or bought something coming out of a renovation. After all, he dealt in "scrap metal".
                        I'm certain you're right there Robert. He was an ideal candidate, (not for us of course), and probably just in the right place at the right time.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Not sure about 'shares', Robert, but do you recall those casebook posts years ago by Peter Birchwood, with details of several large cash payments going out of Mike's account in 1994, in the wake of receiving a wad of diary money, and shortly before he made his first forgery claim?

                          I've often wondered if an electrician or two got mad at Mike about all the money he was starting to make from Shirley's book and threatened to spill some damaging beans if he didn't cough up. Might that explain the denials when push came to shove, despite all the rumours that had been circulating since 1992, and despite Paul Dodd apparently not being too bothered if the thing was taken from his house without permission?

                          Love,

                          Caz
                          X
                          I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Caroline Brown View Post
                            Not sure about 'shares', Robert, but do you recall those casebook posts years ago by Peter Birchwood, with details of several large cash payments going out of Mike's account in 1994, in the wake of receiving a wad of diary money, and shortly before he made his first forgery claim?
                            I had forgotten about that issue. Tales from the Great Diary War....I get the shivers just thinking about them.

                            I don't want to be guilty of torturing your statement until it confesses, but "several large cash payments going out of Mike's account in 1994" intrigues me. To me, it indicates that perhaps several electricians had some claims on the cash, formally or informally. Explains the silence over all these years.

                            Now, I don't want to make the mistake of assuming UK and US law are the same. But over here, the receipt of over $1000 from stolen goods would turn the crime into a felony. However, the statute of limitations would apply and the electricians that stole the Diary out of Battlecrease would almost certainly not face prosecution if the crime had been committed here.

                            Interestingly, in some U.S. states, there is no statue of limitations for forgery!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                              There are three adverts in the Liverpool Mercury in 1888 appealing for the return of a lost dog. All three mention Battlecrease. The earliest one, on 7th August, gives house number 6A.
                              It sounds as if the entire building, 6 and 7 Riversdale Road, was referred to as "Battlecrease."

                              Chris
                              Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
                              https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

                              Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
                              Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

                              Comment

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