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Margaret Minetta Maybrick was not the illigetimate child of James Maybrick...

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  • Margaret Minetta Maybrick was not the illigetimate child of James Maybrick...

    https://jayhartley.com/are-the-peter...cted-to-james/
    Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
    JayHartley.com

  • #2
    There could still be a chance that the Mark Wollaston I found born in 1859 in North Witchford is not the Mark Woolston on the 1911 census. If Mark Woolston is our missing link Maybrick to Peterborough, the next questions are how and why? That will have to be a search for another day.


    Peterborough Paul is definitely related to and probably descended from Mark Woolston/Wollaston. He has many matches linked to Wollastons including a 5th -8th cousin match with a probable shared Wollaston ancestor - John Wollaston 1861- . One person on Ancestry has Mark as a descendant of John.

    woolston.jpg

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    • #3
      We also see the arrivals of Ruth, Jack and Annie, who were all born during the intervening decade. I have no reason to believe at this point that Mark Woolston was not the children’s biological father. However, Annie herself believed that her mother was not Margaret / Elizabeth.


      Paul concurs that great "Aunt Annie" said she never knew who her real mum and dad were. His great grandmother Margaret "went away and came back with Annie". That would be 1915. Her birth was registered in "Ely" while the other births were registered in Eastrea. Only a couple of people knew but wouldn't tell.

      So Elizabeth Woolston, Margaret's eldest, took her 'illegitimate" or "half-sister" Annie's son, Peter Jepson, to Whitechapel and said this neighborhood would be significant to the family one day? Elizabeth died in 1992 so I don't know what she was prophesying.

      Another illegitimate "Annie"? Too bad she was born in 1902.

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      • #4
        I think the biggest clue might be her choice of the name Minetta. It could be Germanic short form and diminutive of Wilhelmina.
        Minetta - Name Meaning, What does Minetta mean? (thinkbabynames.com)

        The Conconi family are Northern Italians from Lombardia. So they might suggest a germanic middle name. Thomas was first generation but it still might also be a shortening of Margaretta.

        Anyway, I'd guess Margaret could have been "adopted" into the Sarah Robertson/Conconi family.

        P.S. If Sarah Ann wanted to pass off another child as James', she'd have to pick one that could have been conceived after he came back from America in 1880. The Conconi family would have to have been in on the con.

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        • #5
          "There is no marriage record between James Jacob Edges and Elizabeth.."

          JH, This seems like it could be the couple's marriage? [my transcription from Ancestry image]

          20 March 1881 St John, Hoxton
          Groom-James Edge, full age, bachelor, labourer, residence 20 Arlington St, father Jacob James Edge, seaman
          Bride-Elizabeth Underwood, full age, spinster, 12 ?itfield St, father George Underwood, carpenter.
          witnesses William Williams and Eliza Griffin​

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post

            "There is no marriage record between James Jacob Edges and Elizabeth.."

            JH, This seems like it could be the couple's marriage? [my transcription from Ancestry image]

            20 March 1881 St John, Hoxton
            Groom-James Edge, full age, bachelor, labourer, residence 20 Arlington St, father Jacob James Edge, seaman
            Bride-Elizabeth Underwood, full age, spinster, 12 ?itfield St, father George Underwood, carpenter.
            witnesses William Williams and Eliza Griffin​
            Hi Debra. I tend to use Find My Past as my primary source. Admittedly I did not search variants of the surname for this marriage as just Edge.

            I have some problems with this record:

            !) The marriage took place in Hoxton, when by that point, both James Edges and Elizabeth King were living in Chiswick and already had a child together. She would be six months pregnant at this point with Margaret
            2) The bride's father's name is Underwood, meaning she would not be Elizabeth King. However, on the birth certificate of Margaret Edges it states the mother's maiden name was Elizabeth King
            3) I did find a marriage between a William King and an Elizabeth Underwood in Shoreditch 1841, which I believe to be her parents. They are also the names listed on the birth record of my Elizabeth King
            Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
            JayHartley.com

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Jay Hartley View Post

              Hi Debra. I tend to use Find My Past as my primary source. Admittedly I did not search variants of the surname for this marriage as just Edge.

              I have some problems with this record:

              !) The marriage took place in Hoxton, when by that point, both James Edges and Elizabeth King were living in Chiswick and already had a child together. She would be six months pregnant at this point with Margaret
              2) The bride's father's name is Underwood, meaning she would not be Elizabeth King. However, on the birth certificate of Margaret Edges it states the mother's maiden name was Elizabeth King
              3) I did find a marriage between a William King and an Elizabeth Underwood in Shoreditch 1841, which I believe to be her parents. They are also the names listed on the birth record of my Elizabeth King
              Hi JH
              Yes. I was aware there were a couple of problems with this record. Perhaps the name James Jacob Edge(s) is more common than I assumed?
              I was also drawn to the record because the GRO birth index gives the maiden name of the mother of James Jacob Edges registered 1885 in Brentford (one of the children identified as being the child of James Edges and Elizabeth King by Feldman) as 'King-Underwood' ; double barrelled. So, while the other children are listed in the GRO with the mother's maiden name of King, the name King-Underwood does appear in at least one. So I wondered if there was more going on here than first appeared.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post

                Hi JH
                Yes. I was aware there were a couple of problems with this record. Perhaps the name James Jacob Edge(s) is more common than I assumed?
                I was also drawn to the record because the GRO birth index gives the maiden name of the mother of James Jacob Edges registered 1885 in Brentford (one of the children identified as being the child of James Edges and Elizabeth King by Feldman) as 'King-Underwood' ; double barrelled. So, while the other children are listed in the GRO with the mother's maiden name of King, the name King-Underwood does appear in at least one. So I wondered if there was more going on here than first appeared.
                You could be right and I could be wrong. I'll adjust the post to state there is a possible marriage. Thanks.
                Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
                JayHartley.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jay Hartley View Post

                  You could be right and I could be wrong. I'll adjust the post to state there is a possible marriage. Thanks.
                  I wasn't saying I was right, I was suggesting it was worth a closer look, given the names involved.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Incidentally, I think it’s ‘Pitfield Street’, Debs. Just off Old Street.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                      Incidentally, I think it’s ‘Pitfield Street’, Debs. Just off Old Street.
                      Thanks Gary.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post

                        I wasn't saying I was right,
                        Neither was I Just that you could be.

                        I think it's good enough to include that this marriage exists, as it would be disingenuous to become aware of it and then claim that no such marriage exists between a JAMES EDGE(S) and an ELIZABETH UNDERWOOD / KING. So I have. But I do also state that I do not believe them to be the same people.
                        Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
                        JayHartley.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jay Hartley View Post

                          Neither was I Just that you could be.

                          I think it's good enough to include that this marriage exists, as it would be disingenuous to become aware of it and then claim that no such marriage exists between a JAMES EDGE(S) and an ELIZABETH UNDERWOOD / KING. So I have. But I do also state that I do not believe them to be the same people.
                          Finding who the marriage related to if not the people you are interested in would be good. I am still finding that the name James Jacob Edges in London might be exclusive to one or two families. Are you?

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                          • #14
                            There was a family of butchers named Hackney at 12, Pitfield Street in 1871 and 1881. In both those years they had a single female domestic servant. Perhaps Elizabeth Underwood had filled that role before she married.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post

                              Finding who the marriage related to if not the people you are interested in would be good. I am still finding that the name James Jacob Edges in London might be exclusive to one or two families. Are you?
                              Ruling out is just as important as ruling in.

                              I do see an EDGE family line from Lambeth, and I do find a SARAH UNDERWOOD line from Lambeth too. The fact JAMES JACOB EDGE is listed on the marriage as the father of the groom does throw a spanner in the works a little. However, there were a few JACOB EDGES and JAMES EDGES who also had either name as their FIRST and MIDDLE name but didn't always use them on all records - the census being one such example. This could be the case here with JAMES EDGE.

                              Neither of the people on the marriage of EDGE/UNDERWOOD can be found living at those addresses in the 1881 census, as far as I can tell and the UNDERWOOD of Lambeth's MMN was SANSUM not KING.

                              As it stands, I still do not believe them to be the same people connected to MARGARET JANE EDGES.
                              Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
                              JayHartley.com

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