Jack the Ripper’s Knife in the Mersey

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

Question? Why presume that Maybrick disposed of the knife in the river Mersey and not some other river? Had he still been in London and got rid of it, say the river Thames? Hence “...I shall return to Battlecrease...” Just a thought.

This question and the other one you made, George, on the Watch thread about possible hand tremors both seem to be answered in the same passages at the end of the Diary about James’ trips to London to visit Fuller.

Here’s my rely on the other thread:

According to the trial and the signed witness, James Maybrick could still write his own will on April 25th, two days before he got ill. So I don't think there's any evidence that he suffered from any acute tremors during the time he was writing in the Watch (or even the Diary with it's last entry on May 3rd)….

To this I must add that the timelines from the trial transcripts are correctly laid down in the diary entries. Not that they would have come from researching the trial transcripts….

A visit to Fuller in London in April - there were two visits, on the 14th of April and the 20th.

The rewriting of the will- April 25th

The rewriting of the will is mentioned in the last entry dated May 3rd. The knife gets thrown 3 entries previous to that as he's mentioning one or both of the visits to London, presumably writing from home in Liverpool.

https://whitechapeljack.com/the-james-maybrick-diary/

https://www.casebook.org/suspects/ja...fmtrial.3.html

[John Savage]

The picture we have above would appear to be the Otterspool Promenade which opened in 1950.
The area behind the sea wall is reclaimed land, it was used in the period 1920-30 for tipping household waste and spoil from the digging of a tunnel under the river Mersey. This being the case the knife would more likely be found under the tarmac or grassy area shown in the picture.

More hear: https://web.archive.org/web/20060927...chapterId=1429

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

By my calculations, 43 acres stretched out 2.5 miles means the Otterspool Promenade reclaimed about 140 feet of land from the Mersey shore. So James would have been standing 140 feet back from what is now the river's edge.

A throw that far would definitely be above average for a ball. It would probably be a knife record.

So the knife is probably in the meadow and quite deep.

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

Here's a map comparison from 1902/3 to today. (Google Maps shows to me it's more like 200 feet from the old shore to the new.)

[John Savage]

Very ambitous reseacher required. Must have his own backhoe excavator!

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

I just thought about this: what if it was low tide when James “allegedly” threw the knife? Low tide is still past the Promenade wall.

Would he throw the knife where the low tide might expose it and still say he would throw it “deep in the river”?

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

Question? Why presume that Maybrick disposed of the knife in the river Mersey and not some other river? Had he still been in London and got rid of it, say the river Thames? Hence “...I shall return to Battlecrease...” Just a thought.

George,

You're right in thinking some of the entries were written in London, although perhaps not the "getting rid of the knife" one. The Diary does indicate that Maybrick took the journal to London. It actually has him saying “it's in front of me” as he's eating parts of his victim (Chapman). I assume he didn't carry them home to Liverpool.

Before that he's afraid George Smith at work will find it so he's writing most of it at work. Then Lowry makes him rip something, presumably the first pages of the journal/stub book that would have included work records. He could therefore have tossed the knife in the Mersey downtown.

But I believe that once he was taken ill he took the journal back to Battlecrease with him so that's where he would have had it when he decided to go to the Mersey and get rid of the knife, according to the Diary, of course.

[George Sotiriou]

George,

You're right in thinking some of the entries were written in London, although perhaps not the "getting rid of the knife" one. The Diary does indicate that Maybrick took the journal to London. It actually has him saying it's in front of him while he's eating parts of his victim (Chapman). I assume he didn't carry them home to Liverpool.

Before that he's afraid George Smith at work will find it so he's writing most of it at work. Then Lowry makes him rip something, presumably the first pages of the journal/stub book that would have included work records. He could therefore have tossed the knife in the Mersey downtown.

But I believe that once he was taken ill he took the journal back to Battlecrease with him so that's where he would have had it when he decided to go to the Mersey and get rid of the knife, according to the Diary, of course.

To me (and this is my opinion only) in the diary the paragraph reads:

"My God I am tired. I do not know if I can go on. Bunny and the children are all that matter. No regrets. I shall not allow such thoughts to enter my head. Tonight I will take my shinning knife and be rid of it. Throw it deep within the river. I shall return to Battlecrease with the knowledge that I can no longer continue my campaign. 'Tis love that spurned me so, 'tis love that shall put an end to it."

Now if we take the line... Tonight I will take my shinning knife and be rid of it. Throw it deep within the river. I shall return to Battlecrease with the knowledge that I can no longer continue my campaign. You have these options:

1. Maybrick is in London. He is on route to throwing the knife in the river (the Thames?) and then heading back home to Battlecrease. or
2. Maybrick has arrived in Liverpool, gone to the Mersey to dispose of the knife and then back to Battlecrease.

[milchmanuk]

Hi

My eldest son goes magnet fishing and pulls out all sorts of crap.
You can watch them , ( magnet fishers ) on YouTube.
They pull out cycles handrails safes and all sorts.
Nonsense post i know but i thought Liverpool would be a washed with them.( magnet fishing)

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

Magnetic fishing sounds like a better possibility than even metal detecting. You don't even have to dive in.

If James threw the knife into the Mersey in Aigburth, then he'd have likely just gone straight down Riversdale Road as Battlecrease was at 7 Riversdale. Here's a picture of where he'd have been.

All the land from here forward is "reclaimed" or built up. But if it was low tide, he could have gone all the way out and down to where the water is now in the picture behind the seawall that was built in the late 1920s. Obviously the seawall had to be built above low tide.

So I might start by using a magnet in the Mersey where that red "Sitting Bull" statue is. (See center of image behind the tree.)

[milchmanuk]

Hi
Sorry i meant to write "scrap" not "crap" to keep in vogue of M.B.

[Caroline Brown]

And there was I thinking your son may have pulled out a monster 'carp', milchman. I must have anagrams on the 'brian'.

While we're on the subject of M.B, I wonder if he would have been aware in 1992 that the words 'tis love' [repeated several times towards the end of the diary, as George reminded us in his post yesterday - hi George, hope you are well] can be found in the 1858 edition of Crashaw's complete works?

Page 143 features a piece of poetry by Thomas Car, who launches off by playing around with his own surname and Crashaw's [as Sir Jim does with MAY in M.B's 'dairy'], just before we get this phrase on line three:

'tis love alone which melts two hearts...

I wonder if M.B. would also have been aware of the Mibrac enigma, which may have had nothing to do with Maybrick, but fits snugly enough with Sir Jim's penchant for playing with names in the diary.

How about the fact that Crashaw's father was the vicar at St. Mary Matfelon, the original white chapel which gave Whitechapel London its name?

And the fact that The Times at Christmas 1884 would come to M.B.'s rescue again, by featuring both Crashaw and Michael Maybrick's lyricist, Fred Weatherley, in adjacent columns of one of its festive articles, despite a certain American adjunct professor's lofty assurances that Crashaw and his work would have been long forgotten and pretty much unknown in Maybrick's lifetime.

When we start adding up all these little facts - and more - which are nowhere to be found in M.B's tattyfilarious second-hand Sphere book [thank you for popping in, Ken Dodd], the so-called Library Miracle becomes more like a damp squib.

I'll leave you with one of my absolute favourites to bring us back on topic.

No, not Jack the Knife, but this haunting number...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08083BNaYcA

Thanks for the music, Gerry la'.

Love,

Caz
X

[Jay Hartley]

Written by John Lennon about the Salvation Army home near where he lived, I find the song Strawberry Fields Forever both relevant and haunting.

It was also just 2 miles from Battlecrease.

I quite like this version.

https://youtu.be/2e-fSFk8-ZA