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What happened to Amelia Marie Pourquoi Demay?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Jerry Dunlop View Post
    Debs,

    From the trial in 1889 we have this statement from Allene Williams.

    ALLENE WILLIAMS (Interpreted). I have known Demay nine years...

    That would put her age at 15 when Williams first met her. She was a young one when she was in service to the gentleman.
    But why assume the age on the death certificate is the correct one?

    She could have lied herself younger when she returned to France.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Kattrup View Post
      But why assume the age on the death certificate is the correct one?

      She could have lied herself younger when she returned to France.
      Very true Kattrup.

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      • #18
        Here's another possibility (assuming she got out of prison early):

        Name: Marie Emélie Demay
        Death Date: 17 août 1890 (17 Aug 1890)
        Death City: Vincennes
        Series: Série 17 : Banlieue, 1883-1892
        Source Information: Ancestry.com. Paris & Vicinity, France, Death Notices, 1860-1902 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2009.

        There's also a long list of Amelia Demays or Marie Demays born, ca. 1859 (+/-5 years) who immigrated to the U.S. I think most of them immigrated with families, which makes most of them non-starters.

        Are there surviving prison discharge records that are searchable?

        Cheers,
        J

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Jerry Dunlop View Post
          Debs,

          From the trial in 1889 we have this statement from Allene Williams.

          ALLENE WILLIAMS (Interpreted). I have known Demay nine years...

          That would put her age at 15 when Williams first met her. She was a young one when she was in service to the gentleman.
          It was not unusual for a girl of 15 or even younger to go into service in the LVP.

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          • #20
            Not much point in speculating about her being this young when we already have 1859 as the probable birth year from court records, and unlike the death certificate, we can actually tie her to the court records.

            Without a newspaper or other source tying her to the city where she died (or a picked up spouse, previously identified relative, etc.), I'd be hesitant to accept accept any particular match. She wasn't the only Amélie Marie Pourquoi/DeMay in France at the time.

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            • #21
              Is Pourquoi's DNA on the Openshaw letter envelope?

              Quick thought...

              I know there is a theory that Le Grand was behind the Lusk letter, and given the handwriting similarity, that may also extend to the Openshaw letter. DNA was extracted from under the stamp on the envelope of the Openshaw letter, and it turned out to be female. Assuming the Le Grand connection, anyone have any thoughts on whether the DNA might belong to Pourquoi?

              Technicians replicate the DNA they find from small samples before looking for genetic markers. This means the DNA might still be stored, and it may be possible to create a genetic profile compatible with the GEDmatch or similar services. For all we know, the lab that tested the Openshaw letter may already have a compatible profile. Given the success of tracking the Golden State Killer through his familial DNA connections, it may be possible to look for a connection to Pourquoi's family relations. It would be a nice confirmation of the Le Strand theory, if it turned out to be true.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Jerry Dunlop View Post
                Not sure if this is her or not. Age is off .

                Amélie Marie Porquier

                death:
                22 March 1892
                Saint Louis, Brest, Finistère, France

                Highly unlikely to be her, this is the announcement in Le Courrier de la Cornouaille 26. march 1892, showing she was a member of a religious order in Brest:



                Nécrologie. — La Communauté des religieuses de la Retraite de Brest vient de perdre une de ses soeurs, Madame Amélie-Marie Porquier, décédée lundi dernier à l'âge de 27 ans. La cérémonie religieuse a été célébrée mardi matin à Brest. Le corps a été transporté á Quimper, où demeure la famille de la regrettée défunte et ou les obsèques et l'inhumation ont eu lieu mercredi matin.
                I guess Demay could have turned to religion after her return to France...but somehow I doubt it. As Jerry noted, her age is also off. I guess the combo of names is not as uncommon as I originally thought

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Justin Clement View Post
                  I know there is a theory that Le Grand was behind the Lusk letter, and given the handwriting similarity, that may also extend to the Openshaw letter.

                  Forgive my faulty memory, but is any of Grande's handwriting known to still exist? Just wondering what sample is being compared with the letter.
                  One of Grande's letters was printed, but I can't seem to recall seeing any handwriting.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Kattrup View Post
                    Forgive my faulty memory, but is any of Grande's handwriting known to still exist? Just wondering what sample is being compared with the letter.
                    One of Grande's letters was printed, but I can't seem to recall seeing any handwriting.
                    Kattrup, I think Justin is saying that the Lusk and Openshaw letters have similar handwriting. I don't know of anyone who has discovered a sample of Grande's handwriting as yet. I haven't really heard anyone put forward a case for Grande writing the Lusk letter.
                    One newspaper did print a transcript of one of Grande's threat letters that deliberately included the original spelling mistakes. I don't have a copy of it anymore but will try and find it again as it's been a long time since I saw it.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                      Kattrup, I think Justin is saying that the Lusk and Openshaw letters have similar handwriting. I don't know of anyone who has discovered a sample of Grande's handwriting as yet. I haven't really heard anyone put forward a case for Grande writing the Lusk letter.
                      One newspaper did print a transcript of one of Grande's threat letters that deliberately included the original spelling mistakes. I don't have a copy of it anymore but will try and find it again as it's been a long time since I saw it.
                      Ah yes, I see what is meant.
                      I wondered since I never saw a sample of his handwriting. As posted elsewhere I looked for some of his letters, but unsuccessfully. Still hoping to locate them...

                      I haven’t heard of Grande authoring the Lusk letter, doesn’t seem very likely to me.

                      I recall the transcript and its apologetic tone. It was well written.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                        One newspaper did print a transcript of one of Grande's threat letters that deliberately included the original spelling mistakes. I don't have a copy of it anymore but will try and find it again as it's been a long time since I saw it.

                        Howard posted at least one paper's transcript here.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Kattrup View Post
                          Howard posted at least one paper's transcript here.
                          One specific newspaper reproduced the letter but also made a point of saying that they had reproduced the original spelling mistakes made by him. I don't see any spelling mistakes in that version but I only skimmed through.
                          I didn't post it or any other Grande newspaper clippings at the time because I was sending all my research to Tom Wescott, which ended up in his writing the Casebook Examiner article back in 2010.

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