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Leather Apron : 1 Sept

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  • Leather Apron : 1 Sept

    Hi Everyone

    Debra A recently posted a newspaper article from The Sheffield and Rotherham Independent, 1 Sept 1888 with this early reference to Leather Apron.

    ‘The woman in a position similar to that of the deceased allege that there is a man who goes by the name of the “Leather Apron” who has more than once attacked unfortunate and defenceless women. His dodge is, it is asserted, to get them in to a house on the pretence of offering them money. He then takes whatever little they have and “half kills” them in addition. ’
    At the time the reporter was talking to this woman, the question of where had the Nichols murder occurred was still part of the mystery and one belief at that time was that the murder may have occurred in a house, and Nichols body was just dumped out side the gateway to Brown’s stable yard. It was later established that she was actually murdered where she was found.

    Similar to this reference to Nichols being lured into a house , are the reports of the case against Nathan Rueben, as recorded here -

    ‘At the Thames Court on Wednesday, Nathan Reuben 34, a tailor’s machinist of 7, Plough street buildings, Whitechapel, was charged with detaining a Polish woman named Annie Goldstein for immoral purposes. ANNE GOLDSTEIN said that she had been living at 7, Plough street buildings, in the prisoner’s rooms for five weeks. Witness did not stay at the house of her own free will, Rueben compelled her. She came from Poland. Witness was a polish woman, and married , but her husband was in New York. She came to this country two mouths after he had left her in Poland. Witness lived with her relatives the first five weeks she was here, and helped to keep house. She then left to try and get into service, when she met a young man, and informed him she was trying to get into a situation. He took her to Rueben, who said he give her food, and she was to sell her things and pay him for it, witness stayed in his house, and slept in a room by herself. About four days afterwards the accused brought a man into the room and locked the door. He threatened to murder her if she did not yield to him. The next morning the accused came into the room, and she asked why he brought the man into her room. He said “I did it to get you food.”
    Mr. Fletcher, who prosecuted, said from inquires made by the police the woman’s character would not bear investigation, and he withdrew the charges
    The accused was discharged’ - The Worcestershire Chronicle, 1 Sept. 1888
    The only named victim of leather aprons seems to be a woman called Widow Annie -

    ‘He carries a razor-like knife, and two weeks ago drew it on a woman called “Widow Annie” as she crossed the square near London Hospital’ - Lloyd’s Weekly Newspaper 9 Sept. 1888
    Annie Goldstein isn’t a widow, she claims her husband was in New York, however she was without a husband in Whitechapel, perhaps she had been assumed to be a widow by others?

    Is this quote in the Star, a reference to Widow Annie -

    ‘One woman whom he assailed some time ago boldly prosecuted him for it, and he was sent up for seven days. He has no settled place of residence, but has slept oftenest in a fourpenny lodging-house of the lowest kind in a disreputable lane leading from Brick-lane.’ - Star 5th Sept
    Is this a reference to the case against Reuben? , there doesn’t seem to be anyone prosecuting or even bringing charges against John Pizer.

    One final item, Pizer was said to work for a ‘Mr Nathan’, does anyone know more about this Mr Nathan

    ‘a Mr. Nathan, for whom he has worked’ - Star 10th Sept 1888

    Could Mr Nathan be the same person as Nathan Rueben?

    Anyway, I haven’t got any further with this for some time now so I may as well bring it to your attention, it might be of some interest.

  • #2
    Interesting find Mr Lucky,


    Great stuff.

    Monty

    Comment


    • #3
      That's very interesting stuff Mr Lucky, thanks for posting.
      Definitely some things worth looking further at there, if possible.

      Comment


      • #4
        I bet Debs will have an identity for 'Mr. Nathan' by the end of the week. Anyone brave enough to take that bet?

        Yours truly,

        Tom Wescott

        Comment


        • #5
          Perhaps Howard will remember a press article which is on the forums that related a theory about men taking women into a house and killing them which IIRC appeared around the time of the Nichols/Chapman murders

          I'll have a look for it

          Comment


          • #6
            Sorry - Haven't found it yet and have run out of time for tonight

            I'll have a look tomorrow if Howard doesn't locate it before then

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Everyone

              Thanks for the replys

              Nemo, thanks for your help, is this the quote you're thinking of ?-

              ‘Bucks-row is a narrow passage running out of Thomas-street, and contains about a dozen houses of a very low class. It would appear as if the murder was committed in [a] house and the body afterwards removed to the place where it was found, the nature of the abdominal wounds being such that it would be hardly possible for them to be inflicted whilst the diseased was dressed. The body was warmly clad.’
              Dundee Courier and Argus 1 Sept . 1888

              Pretty sure it appeared in other press as well, that's just the first one I found.

              Comment


              • #8
                Dear Lucky:

                Thanks for that clip from the Argus.
                May I ask whether you are sure about the date ?
                I can't find that in the September 1st edition...but then you may have a later or earlier edition than what I looked in.

                This is in my September 1st edition :

                To Join JTR Forums :
                Contact Howard@jtrforums.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Correction

                  Hi How,

                  Oops, You're quite correct

                  It's the Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser 1st Sept. 1888

                  Apologies, I clipped the wrong title.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Lucky:
                    That's cool,buddy...thanks !
                    I usually double check articles & the issues not only to see if there is something else in that edition of interest, but also to see stuff I overlooked.
                    Thanks again, Lucky.
                    To Join JTR Forums :
                    Contact Howard@jtrforums.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mr. Lucky View Post
                      One final item, Pizer was said to work for a ‘Mr Nathan’, does anyone know more about this Mr Nathan

                      ‘a Mr. Nathan, for whom he has worked’ - Star 10th Sept 1888

                      Could Mr Nathan be the same person as Nathan Rueben?

                      Anyway, I haven’t got any further with this for some time now so I may as well bring it to your attention, it might be of some interest.
                      There does appear to be a Nathan Rueben, tailor's machinist of a similar age in one London census. Still looking in others for him.

                      John Pizer was a bootfinisher so Mr Nathan would most likely be someone in the shoe trade if Pizer had worked for him? There's a few men with the surname Nathan connected to the boot and shoe trade and living in Whitechapel and SGE.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Debs

                        Thanks very much , just to complicate things I've just had a look through the press again and found a slightly different article from Reynolds's Newspaper 19 August 1888 which gives his age as 54!, perhaps just an error for 34

                        There's some other bits of info from this article, Reynolds's Newspaper 19 August 1888-

                        The title of the article ‘DETAINING A WOMAN FOR IMMORAL PURPOSES'
                        and mentions he was ‘Brought up on a warrant’

                        ‘Anne Goldstein, whose evidence was interpreted by Mr Smaje’

                        and

                        ‘Mr Saunders said he thought this was a case that should be adjourned for the authorities to be communicated with and inquiries to be made. The hearing was then adjourned, prisoner being admitted to bail.’

                        So, what does 'admitted to bail' mean exactly?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mr. Lucky View Post
                          Hi Debs

                          Thanks very much , just to complicate things I've just had a look through the press again and found a slightly different article from Reynolds's Newspaper 19 August 1888 which gives his age as 54!, perhaps just an error for 34

                          There's some other bits of info from this article, Reynolds's Newspaper 19 August 1888-

                          The title of the article ‘DETAINING A WOMAN FOR IMMORAL PURPOSES'
                          and mentions he was ‘Brought up on a warrant’

                          ‘Anne Goldstein, whose evidence was interpreted by Mr Smaje’

                          and

                          ‘Mr Saunders said he thought this was a case that should be adjourned for the authorities to be communicated with and inquiries to be made. The hearing was then adjourned, prisoner being admitted to bail.’

                          So, what does 'admitted to bail' mean exactly?
                          Hi Mr Lucky
                          Funnily enough I typed out a post asking about his age as Lloyd's also put him at 54 but the majority had him as 34.
                          Regarding the bail issue. The case was eventually dismissed due to police looking into the character of Anne Goldstein and that is the snippet you posted first. He appeared in front of the Thames magistrates twice,the first time he was bailed for further investigation and the second time the case was dropped, because they discovered something about Anne's character that made her testimony unreliable, one paper mentions the charges were an act of revenge on Anne's part.
                          I wonder if she might be the brothel keeper Anne Goldstein mentioned in later articles.
                          I've read of Mr Smaj(e) a few times, he was the resident interpreter for the Thames Court maybe?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Debs

                            Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                            Hi Mr Lucky
                            Funnily enough I typed out a post asking about his age as Lloyd's also put him at 54 but the majority had him as 34.
                            Hmm, I look a bit more into this, they may just be errors in the text or two different sources?

                            Regarding the bail issue. The case was eventually dismissed due to police looking into the character of Anne Goldstein and that is the snippet you posted first. He appeared in front of the Thames magistrates twice,the first time he was bailed for further investigation and the second time the case was dropped,
                            That's what I thought was happening , but was he locked up ? or did someone pay his bail and he was released?

                            because they discovered something about Anne's character that made her testimony unreliable, one paper mentions the charges were an act of revenge on Anne's part.
                            She's only been in the country a short while (she claims), I wonder what had been discovered?

                            Thanks again
                            Last edited by Mr. Lucky; January 13, 2013, 06:59 PM. Reason: editing

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Mr Lucky

                              No, that's not the one

                              Howard might remember me and him discussing a theory that was outlined in a press article posted by Howard. In it, women were lured into a house by men and didn't leave the house alive

                              As you probably already know, there was also an interesting comment about Leather Apron in another article as it was before the arrest of Piser, IIRC, and it said something about the police stating that the published descriptions of LA were misleading

                              That might be criticism of the press for something, exaggeration maybe, but the first time I read it I thought it implied that the police had prior knowledge of the man called Leather Apron

                              It was said that LA was suspected in two of the four murders up to Chapman -ie Nichols and Chapman

                              In consideration of his perceived MO, I'm don't see why they were so sure that he wasn't a suspect in the Tabram case unless it is related to these theories that the victims were killed elsewhere and transported to the places they were discovered in, or another suspect seemed more likely in that case, such as a soldier

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