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  • #16
    The police knew that the leather apron found by the tap at 29 Hanbury St. belonged to Richardson and had nothing to do with the murders. Yet, all of this happened anyway because they were reacting to the press and the public hysteria and it had its effect on the investigation. Thick was seizing on what he thought was an opportunity and it backfired - partly because it was a red herring to begin with and partly because of Thick's apparently unscrupulous behavior.

    I believe the same goes for the 'maniac" aspect as well. They only really got a handle on the investigation and what they may be facing after the double event. At least they weren't as quick to let the press lead things and there was better cooperation with what had been a very adversarial coroner.

    When the Packer situation erupted in the press, the police handled it much more effectively and didn't let it alter their investigation... no matter what was printed in the press.
    Best Wishes,
    Cris Malone
    ______________________________________________
    "Objectivity comes from how the evidence is treated, not the nature of the evidence itself. Historians can be just as objective as any scientist."

    Comment


    • #17
      Good morning Lynn,

      "Leather Apron," whose name is on everybody's lips in the Whitechapel district.

      his attacks on Whitechapel street-walkers

      He disappeared from his accustomed haunts just about the time of the George-yard murder, has not been in any of the lodging-houses in which he has slept for years, and since that murder has been seen only once or twice in a district in which he is known by sight to many. Furthermore a man exactly answering his description was found one night sleeping on the steps in the very house and in the very passage through which the victim of Saturday was led to her death. Jews who are driven to sleep in passage ways are not common even in Whitechapel, and there is little question that the party with the Hebrew face who was found asleep in the passage at 29, Hanbury-street, was the redoubtable "Leather Apron."
      Leather Apron's accustomed haunts being Whitechapel. This is not Jacob Isenschmidt, whose bad behavior in his home district of Upper Holloway got him arrested there.

      Please give this matter your consideration,

      Roy

      Comment


      • #18
        Elthorne.jpg

        It's four and a half miles from there. His home patch. Whether Jacob Isenschidt was the man seen at the Prince Albert pub the morning of the Chapman murder is a separate issue from Leather Apron.

        I hope this is helpful,

        Roy

        Comment


        • #19
          housing

          Hello Roy. Thanks.

          Actually, "Leather Apron" was thought to live near Brick ln. The locals claimed that he had moved right after the Nichols slaying.

          Jacob MOVED to Mitford BETWEEN the Nichols and Chapman slayings. Where did Jacob live BEFORE he moved to Mitford?

          Cheers.
          LC

          Comment


          • #20
            Elthorn

            Hello (again) Roy. Thanks.

            Not sure why that would help? Jacob had not lived on Elthorn since Whitsun. He was found by the police on the New Caledonian rd.

            Cheers.
            LC

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Lynn Cates View Post
              Hello Roy. Thanks.

              Actually, "Leather Apron" was thought to live near Brick ln. The locals claimed that he had moved right after the Nichols slaying.
              Okay. This contradicts the Star article, which is the source material you provided. Here's what the Star said:
              He disappeared from his accustomed haunts just about the time of the George-yard murder, has not been in any of the lodging-houses in which he has slept for years, and since that murder has been seen only once or twice in a district in which he is known by sight to many.
              the lodging-houses in which he has slept for years,

              a district in which he is known by sight to many

              The way I read this paragraph, since it begins -

              "Leather Apron," whose name is on everybody's lips in the Whitechapel district.

              his attacks on Whitechapel street-walkers
              Is that Leather Apron is local to the Whitechapel area. Has always been local to the area. He has slept in Whitechapel lodging houses for years. But since the murder has been seen only once or twice in a district in which he is known by sight to many. That district being Whitechapel. The district we are discussing. The one where the murders happened. This paragraph is about the Leather Apron from Whitechapel. The one whose name is on everybody's lips in the district.

              Jacob MOVED to Mitford BETWEEN the Nichols and Chapman slayings. Where did Jacob live BEFORE he moved to Mitford?
              Why are you asking me a question, Lynn. Don't treat me like I'm one of your schoolkids, just tell me what it is you want to say.

              Jacob had not lived on Elthorn since Whitsun. He was found by the police on the New Caledonian rd.
              It's 3.3 miles from New Caledonia Road to Brick Lane.

              Roy

              Comment


              • #22
                "Oh, the wayward wind . . ."

                Hello Roy. Thanks. I wrote:

                Actually, "Leather Apron" was thought to live near Brick ln. The locals claimed that he had moved right after the Nichols slaying.

                This was part of (if I recall properly) a story where “Leather Apron” was searched for but not found. The ones who knew which places he had stayed (he did not live in one location for long) offered the conjecture that he had moved. But you say:

                “This contradicts the Star article . . .”

                I fear I see no contradiction. You will note that haunts refers to various locations where he has stayed. I believe your clarification is that:

                “. . . Leather Apron is local to the Whitechapel area. Has always been local to the area. He has slept in Whitechapel lodging houses for years. But since the murder has been seen only once or twice in a district in which he is known by sight to many. That district being Whitechapel. The district we are discussing. The one where the murders happened. This paragraph is about the Leather Apron from Whitechapel. The one whose name is on everybody's lips in the district.”

                I don’t see that. He has been frequently IN Whitechapel/Spitalfields. He is known even by lodginghouse keepers who have tossed him out for his violent behaviour. But that does NOT mean he stayed there only. Please to recall that Isenschmid wandered about for many miles. He was even supposed to be in West London selling sheep heads and entrails.


                If my conjecture is correct, he even stayed in lodginghouses part of the time—possibly when he was able to extort enough money from prostitutes.


                “Why are you asking me a question, Lynn?”


                Well, mostly in hopes of obtaining an answer.


                “Don't treat me like I'm one of your schoolkids. . .”


                I’m not.


                “. . . just tell me what it is you want to say.”


                But I have. I don’t know where he was staying for that time. “Leather Apron” was thought to reside in various locations near Brick ln—for a limited time. Part of the time, he was supposed to be in a lodginghouse with Mickledy Joe. Isenschmid was found in a house and was possibly the chap ejected some time before from #29 Hanbury.


                “It’s 3.3 miles from New Caledonia Road to Brick Lane.”


                Very well. His being found there was roughly a month before the murders began. I have no idea for how long he was supposed to live near Brick ln. As Mary put it, he wandered the streets. My guess is that he lived, sometimes in empty houses and passageways (stories of “Leather Apron” have him hovering in dark passageways), when he could afford it, he stayed in doss houses.

                And yes, he had been seen for some time. Recall he wandered for many weeks in1887 and (if George Chipper is to be believed) he even wandered the streets in 1886.

                Cheers.
                LC

                Comment


                • #23
                  To summarize, you think Jacob Isenschmidt was a 'wandering' Leather Apron. Not the homeboy type who was generic to the Whitechapel area only. That's actually much improved, Lynn now that you explain your proposal more fully. I ilke it better when you state your case and skip the quiz show bit.

                  Because I read your articles about Isenschmidt and couldn't understand why you spent so much time on Leather Apron. Now I see the light. I see your approach.

                  Roy

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Clearly there was more than one "Leather Apron" wandering about. Sightings continued to be reported long after Pizer was cleared and Issenschmid was confined.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      sighting

                      Hello Roy. Thanks.

                      Yes, in a nutshell, that is my theory--has been for awhile.

                      There was another story about a "Leather Apron" sighting (may have included it in my essay) in which the writer saw him heading over a bridge near West London. He walked with his head down and holding his coat together with his hand. It sounded very like the story about the ginger colour haired man at the pub. (Of course, many likely walked in this manner--to be fair.)

                      And, finally, I may be entirely wrong about all of it.

                      Cheers.
                      LC

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Henry James

                        Hello Scott. Thanks.

                        Absolutely correct. I think I included a few in my essay. Notice that Henry James was "exonerated" as a harmless lunatic; however, nothing further was ever said about Ead's "knife" sighting.

                        Cheers.
                        LC

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          butcher

                          Hello Roy, Scott. To add just a bit of force to my argument, you recall that there was a story in "The Star" in which the butcher who had taken over Jacob's establishment at #59 Elthorn described a recent encounter with Isenschmid. He was wearing a butcher's apron (material not specified) and carried his knives in it. He was brandishing a recently cut ox tail.

                          Cheers.
                          LC

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Hebrew face

                            Hello (again) Roy, Scott. Part of my case depends on whether or not Isenschmid's face approximates a "Hebrew face."

                            Thoughts?

                            Cheers.
                            LC

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Yes, absolutely.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                What's in a name?

                                Hello Scott. Thanks. His name certainly is.

                                Cheers.
                                LC

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