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Pizer at Crossingham's?

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  • Lynn
    You are probably correct in suggesting that the nickname 'Leather Apron' was not exclusive to Pizer, and that the behaviours of different persons - some of whom only resembled Pizer, and who had never been called Leather Apron, became mixed. Then with the murders would come a big dose of hysteria and urban myth and before you know it pervy little Pizer was a monster.
    Taking everything we know, this is far and away the mot likely explanation for what happened.
    No conspiracy, no fit up, just happenstance. And not very remarkable either.

    Comment


    • follow up

      Hello Edward. Thanks.

      Sounds like you got around to reading my essay?

      The remarkable part is that, once Piser was exonerated, it would have been good procedure to have followed up to find out whether he actually WERE the one who was extorting the ladies. A good start would have included Donovan.

      Oh, well.

      Cheers.
      LC

      Comment


      • Err no Lynn afraid not. But I've been saying that for some time.
        I would suggest that once Pizer was exonerated, and after he had himself confessed to being Leather Apron there was no point so far as the police were concerned in asking Donovan to confirm what he had already admitted to.
        I have also said this several times.
        It would be nice for us now if Donovan had been able to see Pizer and for us t have his observations recorded and available. But we have what we have!
        I also have no doubt that Pizer was the primary source for the Leather Apron scares.
        Don't forget even the composite Leather Apron bogey man wasn't linked to any murder - he was just a highly suspicious person who had to be tracked down to see if he could be linked to the crimes or cleared so the investigation could move in a different direction.

        I think the most specific claim was that Leather Apron had been seen with Nichols before her demise. But from memory, I think that was from the women who confronted Pizer in the street, and with Pizer cleared that lead went dead.

        In my opinion the focus of the police investigation went down another distracting dead end immediately after Pizer's exoneration with Iscenscmid, who had mild 'Leather Apron' connections.

        Thick as involved in the Iscenschmid investigation also...

        But Thick was a local CID Sergeant so it is hardly surprising that he was involved in the investigation.

        Comment


        • strangling

          Hello Edward. Thanks.

          Completely disagree. Some, like Donavan and Richardson, hinted that the police had it wrong--both knew the REAL "Leather Apron."

          I have noted many times that Leather Apron did not necessarily murder anyone. However, many distressed ladies felt otherwise. A sinister man had been shaking them down for money. He wore an apron (note absence of past tense) and carried knives with him.

          Of course, IF this were the man who killed Polly and Annie, obviously his candidacy would be furthered by any reports of strangling/trying to strangle--since both ladies bore the marks. I don't think Piser ever strangled anyone? So I agree that Piser--even if he were actually called "Leather Apron"--was not Polly and Annie's killer.

          Cheers.
          LC

          Comment


          • Lynn
            Richardson's claims are not relevant, but I think you are reading a lot into the word 'real', as if it implies that Pizer wasn't the real Leather Apron. This is what comes from reading strange meanings into things that you want to see.

            You may have noticed that Pizer had a leather apron and knives were the tools of his trade.
            Obviously Pizer didn't kill Chapman or Nichols and I would not expect to find reports of him trying to strange anyone

            Comment


            • Why aren't Richardson's claims relevant?

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              • I meant not relevant to being able to help establish one way or another whether Pizer was known as Leather Apron

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                • Richardson's story of seeing "LA" on the street is unlike what is known of Pizer's character.

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                  • relevant

                    Hello Edward. Thanks.

                    Piser did not wear the apron or carry his knives with him. They were found in his house.

                    Richardson's remarks are QUITE relevant. It indicates that he--and whomever shared his view--thought Thick had got the wrong man. He did, too.

                    Cheers.
                    LC

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                    • spot on

                      Hello Scott. Absolutely.

                      Cheers.
                      LC

                      Comment


                      • Lynn the tools of Pizer's trade were at his house because he was staying at his house - he didn't usually stay there though did he.
                        Did you want him to have opened the door to Thick wearing his apron with his pockets stuffed with knives? Would that have convinced you?
                        As it is Pizer said he was relieved he didn't have anything on him at that moment.

                        The Richardson story only goes to show that the Leather Apron phantom was not exclusively based on Pizer.
                        Richardson was reporting here say - he didn't personally say he thought it was Leather Apron - he said others thought that. I don't doubt that many a local weirdo was accused of being Leather Apron once the scare arose.
                        However the original descriptions fitted Pizer and Pizer was the main template.

                        Incidentally if you want Richardson's man to be Iscenschmid you've got your work cut out.

                        Comment


                        • apron

                          Hello Edward. Thanks.

                          JI was pinched BEFORE that. I can get you the dates if you need them.

                          Yes, had Piser worn the apron it WOULD have enhanced his candidacy. As it is, he is one of the very weakest candidates, contributing little to the legend.

                          JI DID wear his apron with the knives in it. See the difference?

                          Cheers.
                          LC

                          Comment


                          • Lynn
                            You can vociferously dismiss Pizer and talk up Iscenschmid all you like but your revisionist theory makes little difference.
                            And you know what? Aprons can be taken off in a trice. And put back on again.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Lynn Cates View Post
                              Hello Edward. Thanks.

                              Sounds like you got around to reading my essay?

                              The remarkable part is that, once Piser was exonerated, it would have been good procedure to have followed up to find out whether he actually WERE the one who was extorting the ladies. A good start would have included Donovan.

                              Oh, well.

                              Cheers.
                              LC
                              Exactly. But since the police knew that Pizer was never known as Leather Apron, there was no need to follow up those crucial loose ends.

                              Yours truly,

                              Tom Wescott

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Edward Stow
                                In my opinion the focus of the police investigation went down another distracting dead end immediately after Pizer's exoneration with Iscenscmid, who had mild 'Leather Apron' connections.
                                Mild? You trumpet Pizer as Leather Apron in spite of the fact that he's demonstrably innocent, and here's Isenschmid, a total LA like character, and you say his connections are merely mild? Man, you've got some glasses on.

                                Yours truly,

                                Tom Wescott

                                Comment

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