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Proof of Innocence?

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  • The Bankes family - yes. They now own an equestrian centre in Studland. I made enquires as I like riding, and they had a ridiculously low weight limit, so being a fine figure of a man I couldn't avail myself of their services. I was looking forward to riding around the Agglestone Rock and over to the nudist beach.

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    • It needs to be done more systematically, but my impression from browsing some newspaper reports is that mostly Blandford played two-innings matches, or matches that were intended to have two innings but where the report says there wasn't time for two. If this match began as early as has been suggested, I find it difficult to understand why it should have had only one innings. Unless it was rained off. But there are two reports of it, and neither said it hadn't been completed.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
        The Bankes family - yes. They now own an equestrian centre in Studland. I made enquires as I like riding, and they had a ridiculously low weight limit, so being a fine figure of a man I couldn't avail myself of their services. I was looking forward to riding around the Agglestone Rock and over to the nudist beach.
        I’ve often taken the Sandbanks ferry across to Studland for a bit of ramble along the beach and inland to the heaths. And up onto Ballard down for the views. But I digress…

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        • The views of the nudist beach no doubt. You don't fool me!

          I keep intending to stay in the Knoll House Hotel near the Bankes Arms. It used to be very posh - now slightly in decline.

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          • Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post
            We've been discussing the "return match" on 30 August, This looks to me like the first match, played at Wareham on 21 July, as reported by the Blandford Weekly News on 28 July 1888. No Druitt, but still a win for the Isle of Purbeck on the first innings, "time not allowing the game to be finished":

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            Thanks. One can really go down a rabbit-hole studying these Dorset cricketeers.

            The "A. J. Harenc" is, I think, really A. G. Harenc, the son of a Major-General. So we have another player who was a student at Cambridge in 1888.

            In 1901 Harenc is a stockbroker in London, and his visitor is Mildred Farquharson, born Dorset. She's another cousin of the MP and was living in Langton Long, Blandford in 1881. Her father was Magistrate for the County of Dorset.

            One would think that if there were rumors about Druitt down in Dorset, some of these people would have known about them.

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            • Maybe I have a good excuse to go there now

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              • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                I’m trying to resist going too deeply into this particular rabbit hole. I already have a predisposition towards all things Dorset and I could easily spend days on end researching the subject.
                Why not come over to the dark side? It doesn't matter if you think MJD is guilty or not, there is still a mystery here to unravel. How did he end up in the MEPO files?

                It is a long shot, but there's a prominent bloke in Dorset who can be seen attending at least one social gathering with M.J. Druitt in the 1880s. He kept a diary and it still exists. I doubt it is very likely that he mentioned any local rumors, but who knows?

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                • Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post

                  Why not come over to the dark side? It doesn't matter if you think MJD is guilty or not, there is still a mystery here to unravel. How did he end up in the MEPO files?

                  It is a long shot, but there's a prominent bloke in Dorset who can be seen attending at least one social gathering with M.J. Druitt in the 1880s. He kept a diary and it still exists. I doubt it is very likely that he mentioned any local rumors, but who knows?
                  Who he?

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                  • Originally posted by Michael Banks View Post

                    Could you explain why you’ve resorted to a bit of Rubenholdian editing of my quote?
                    Simply pointing out, without (preferably) going off-tangent to Cross/Lechmere, that when it suits you you say one thing and then contradict yourself elsewhere rather than getting into a whole discussion about it. Did it change the meaning of what you said? Not in the slightest.

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                    • Originally posted by Phil Kellingley View Post

                      Simply pointing out, without (preferably) going off-tangent to Cross/Lechmere, that when it suits you you say one thing and then contradict yourself elsewhere rather than getting into a whole discussion about it. Did it change the meaning of what you said? Not in the slightest.
                      Mike was describing a minor diversion from Lechmere’s suggested work route, not a cross-country railway journey.

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                      • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post

                        Who he?
                        He's Sir John Alexander Hanham of Wimborne Minster, who died in 1911. A close contemporary of W.H. Druitt and MJD.

                        Click image for larger version  Name:	John Alexander Hanham.jpg Views:	0 Size:	26.4 KB ID:	588713

                        Not surprisingly, one can find him at multiple social events in Wimborne in the 1880s with the Druitts in attendance. I believe there was a ball with M.J.D. rubbing elbows with him, but I can't find it at the moment, but here's another one. Henry Farquharson is also there, as is Wyke-Smith who attended MJD's funeral.


                        Click image for larger version  Name:	Hanham.jpg Views:	0 Size:	55.7 KB ID:	588715



                        (This one says 'Mr. Hanham' but other events with the Druitts identify him as Sir John Hanham)


                        I noticed sometime ago that his diaries and papers, 1874-1894, are available at the Dorset History Center in Dorchester, though whether it mentions the Druitts is another matter. As you well know, disappointment is the norm. Hanham must have been aware of the Druitts, but that's all I know.

                        So, if you are ever stuck in Dorchester and it is raining and you're bored, you might have a look. The Center has other diaries, too, but this is the one in the catalogue that looked the most promising.


                        Hanham, John A, (1854-1911) | The National Archives

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post
                          It needs to be done more systematically, but my impression from browsing some newspaper reports is that mostly Blandford played two-innings matches, or matches that were intended to have two innings but where the report says there wasn't time for two. If this match began as early as has been suggested, I find it difficult to understand why it should have had only one innings. Unless it was rained off. But there are two reports of it, and neither said it hadn't been completed.
                          Chris, accepting of course that we can’t always equate what went on then as compared to now, one innings matches (called one-day matches) have always started in the modern era at least at 11.00 (the same as 3 or 4 day matches or even 5 day Test matches) It’s only in very recent years with the advent of floodlights and the use of a white cricket ball a coloured clothing which has allowed some games to begin in the afternoon. These are known these days as ‘day/night’ games and are played over only 20 overs per innings. Obviously this doesn’t prove that the game in question must have begun at 11.00 or 12.00 and of course its been shown that some games did begin later in the day.

                          A minor point but if game began at 4.30 and if we suggest a meal beak between innings of half and hour or even an hour then there might have been an issue with the light, depending on how many runs were scored and the duration of each innings. Meaning that the team batting second (chosen by the toss of a coin) could have faced a real disadvantage as batting in fading or poor light is difficult and eventually close to impossible. Someone might say “well the second innings was only of 23 runs.” This is true of course but no one could have predicted this and the aim is usually to avoid these kind of advantages or disadvantages based simply on a toss of a coin.



                          Regards

                          Michael🔎


                          " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Phil Kellingley View Post

                            Simply pointing out, without (preferably) going off-tangent to Cross/Lechmere, that when it suits you you say one thing and then contradict yourself elsewhere rather than getting into a whole discussion about it. Did it change the meaning of what you said? Not in the slightest.
                            Of course it changed the meaning of your edited version. It was purely about bringing a victim back to a location that a killer had a known connection to. It wasn’t about local knowledge. If local knowledge is considered a major advantage by any individual then of course anyone living/working in the area is going to ‘score’ higher than Druitt.
                            Regards

                            Michael🔎


                            " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post

                              He's Sir John Alexander Hanham of Wimborne Minster, who died in 1911. A close contemporary of W.H. Druitt and MJD.

                              Click image for larger version

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                              Not surprisingly, one can find him at multiple social events in Wimborne in the 1880s with the Druitts in attendance. I believe there was a ball with M.J.D. rubbing elbows with him, but I can't find it at the moment, but here's another one. Henry Farquharson is also there, as is Wyke-Smith who attended MJD's funeral.


                              Click image for larger version

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                              (This one says 'Mr. Hanham' but other events with the Druitts identify him as Sir John Hanham)


                              I noticed sometime ago that his diaries and papers, 1874-1894, are available at the Dorset History Center in Dorchester, though whether it mentions the Druitts is another matter. As you well know, disappointment is the norm. Hanham must have been aware of the Druitts, but that's all I know.

                              So, if you are ever stuck in Dorchester and it is raining and you're bored, you might have a look. The Center has other diaries, too, but this is the one in the catalogue that looked the most promising.


                              Hanham, John A, (1854-1911) | The National Archives
                              Ah, Dorchester - Thomas Hardy’s Casterbridge. Thanks for the info. Who knows, Hanham may have referenced the WM in his diaries, irrespective of any suspected local connection.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Michael Banks View Post

                                Chris, accepting of course that we can’t always equate what went on then as compared to now, one innings matches (called one-day matches) have always started in the modern era at least at 11.00 (the same as 3 or 4 day matches or even 5 day Test matches) It’s only in very recent years with the advent of floodlights and the use of a white cricket ball a coloured clothing which has allowed some games to begin in the afternoon. These are known these days as ‘day/night’ games and are played over only 20 overs per innings. Obviously this doesn’t prove that the game in question must have begun at 11.00 or 12.00 and of course its been shown that some games did begin later in the day.

                                A minor point but if game began at 4.30 and if we suggest a meal beak between innings of half and hour or even an hour then there might have been an issue with the light, depending on how many runs were scored and the duration of each innings. Meaning that the team batting second (chosen by the toss of a coin) could have faced a real disadvantage as batting in fading or poor light is difficult and eventually close to impossible. Someone might say “well the second innings was only of 23 runs.” This is true of course but no one could have predicted this and the aim is usually to avoid these kind of advantages or disadvantages based simply on a toss of a coin.


                                But Mike, it clearly isn’t only in very recent years that matches were started in the mid-afternoon. That one notice I posted showing dozens of matches being started in mid afternoon suggests it was the norm in the Croydon area in 1888.

                                I can dig out loads more if it’s still an issue.

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