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  • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post

    That add appeared in the Western Gazette, a Yeovil (Somerset) paper with a wide west country circulation.

    I imagine the Blandford Weekly had a more local circulation and might have printed info on local matched gratis.
    Ah. That wasn't the Blandford Weekly News? In that case forget what I said, because it was based on the reports in the Blandford Weekly News.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
      Gary I'm fast coming to the conclusion that the British Library is the only place with any potentially useful records for this matter.
      That’s somewhere I don’t have a readers card for.

      They hold a key source of info about Francis Thompson that Richard Patterson never looked up, preferring the edited version in John Walsh’s biography.

      The road that runs along the W perimeter of the BL is Ossulston Street. My grandad was born there.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Christer Holmgren View Post

        It is not a suggestion that many serial killers had troubled backgrounds with much abuse, both physical and psychological. It is a well established fact. It may well be that some serial killers have tried to take advantage of the fact, once they learned that they could get advantages by claiming a bad childhood, but that will be a secondary effect of a primary fact if you ask me. And basically, I don´t think that serial killers as a rule have brilliant and loving childhoods but claim that thy were abused when caught. It will perhaps more be along the lines of exagerrating the abuse in order to gain sympathy.

        The kind of childhood that Montague Druitt had, as far as we know, is not a childhood that is in any way likely to produce a serial killer, it is the complete reverse. Let me quote from Wikipedia:

        "Montague Druitt was born in Wimborne Minster, Dorset, England. He was the second son and third child of prominent local surgeon William Druitt, and his wife Ann (née Harvey). William Druitt was a justice of the peace, a governor of the local grammar school, and a regular worshipper at the local Anglican church, the Minster. Six weeks after his birth, Montague Druitt was christened at the Minster by his maternal great-uncle, Reverend William Mayo. The Druitts lived at Westfield House, which was the largest house in the town, and set in its own grounds with stables and servants' cottages. Druitt had six brothers and sisters, including an elder brother William who entered the law, and a younger brother Edward who joined the Royal Engineers.
        Druitt was educated at Winchester College, where he won a scholarship at the age of 13, and excelled at sports, especially cricket and fives. He was active in the school's debating society, an interest that might have spawned his desire to become a barrister. In debates, he spoke in favour of French republicanism, compulsory military service, and the resignation of Benjamin Disraeli, and against the Ottoman Empire, the influence of Otto von Bismarck, and the conduct of the government in the Tichborne case. He defended William Wordsworth as "a bulwark of Protestantism", and condemned the execution of King Charles I as "a most dastardly murder that will always attach to England's fair name as a blot". In a light-hearted debate, he spoke against the proposition that bondage to fashion is a social evil.
        In his final year at Winchester, 1875–76, Druitt was Prefect of Chapel, treasurer of the debating society, school fives champion, and opening bowler for the cricket team. In June 1876, he played cricket for the school team against Eton College, which won the match with a team including cricketing luminaries Ivo Bligh and Kynaston Studd, as well as a future Principal Private Secretary at the Home Office Evelyn Ruggles-Brise. Druitt bowled out Studd for four. With a glowing academic record, he was awarded a Winchester Scholarship to New College, Oxford.
        At New College, Druitt was popular with his peers and was elected Steward of the Junior Common Room. He played cricket and rugby for the college team, and was the winner of both double and single fives at the university in 1877. In a seniors' cricket match in 1880, he bowled out William Patterson, who later captained Kent County Cricket Club.
        Druitt gained a second class in Classical Moderations in 1878 and graduated with a third class Bachelor of Arts degree in Literae Humaniores (Classics) in 1880 His youngest brother, Arthur, entered New College in 1882, just as Druitt was following in his eldest brother William's footsteps by embarking on a career in law."

        What is of interest here is not that Druitt was given lots of opportunities on account of his familys wealth - it is that he responded to the opportunities he was given and thrived. It paints a picture of a boy who very much embraced the norms of the society he was born into and who was much appreciated for it.

        The killer you mention, Bruce McArthur, is described like this in an article about a documentary on his story:

        "Serial homicide expert Jooyoung Lee...explores how McArthur fits the profile of many serial killers; skilled at deception, opportunists who enjoy having control while preying on marginalized victims. He also speaks about the systemic racism that led to lack of police followup when men of colour started going missing in the Village.
        He hopes the documentary will bring a deeper understanding “of the many factors that went into creating Bruce McArthur and abetting his crimes.”
        Lee details the repressed shame McArthur would have felt given his upbringing, along with anger and resentment he would have felt toward himself, his family and the gay community by being attracted to men.
        The documentary points to a tipping point after McArthur, who previously lived as a straight man with a wife and children, was outed to his family by a male lover."

        So what we seem to have here is a killer who was brought up feeling repressed about his sexual orientation, responding to it by allowing himself to be led into a heterosexual marriage, resulting in him turning into a pressure cooker. It all smells very much of self-resentment.
        Psychological repression, therefore, meaning that it seems that his problems surfaced together with his sexuality. There is nothing strange about how he could have had a perfectly normal childhood up to that point. And of course, we can not point to somebody abusing him as such, it was more about collective societal norms delivering the abuse. Regardless, McArthur is not the norm when it comes to serial killers and childhood abuse. He is an exception.

        However, to get a better picture, I suggest we read up on the hundreds of serial killers who have spoken of extremely abusive childhoods, many of the stories being corroborated and well documented. It is not an entirely simple matter, because there are many factors to weigh in, but basically, violence nurtures violence.
        Plenty of gay men have been repressed enough to engage in heterosexual marriage down the years. Does not make them serial killers. A pathological desire to inflict pain and suffering causes that.

        Thanks for the reading advice.
        Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
        JayHartley.com

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post

          Ah. That wasn't the Blandford Weekly News? In that case forget what I said, because it was based on the reports in the Blandford Weekly News.
          I don’t think so. The Western Gazette ran exactly the same advert and their paper had that pink tinge.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Steve Blomer View Post

            Nice find, but times do still vary. But suggesting a later start was likely, at least in the Croyden area.
            I Iived in the Croydon area from 1978 until 2011.

            I imagine any cricket match on a Saturday involving Whitgift School couldn't start while the boys were having a long lie-in, nursing their hangovers, and those involving the gas works couldn't start until a good morning's overtime had been worked - or at least faked.

            Probably different in 1888 though, so I'll get me coat.

            Love,

            Caz
            X
            I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Caroline Brown View Post

              I Iived in the Croydon area from 1978 until 2011.

              I imagine any cricket match on a Saturday involving Whitgift School couldn't start while the boys were having a long lie-in, nursing their hangovers, and those involving the gas works couldn't start until a good morning's overtime had been worked - or at least faked.

              Probably different in 1888 though, so I'll get me coat.

              Love,

              Caz
              X
              Caz,

              Take that coat off!

              It seems it may well have been the same in 1888.

              Gary

              Comment


              • Although I’m not really inclined to go over the same old ground about Druitt and Macnaughten with people who obviously lose sleep over the fact that some people find Druitt an interesting suspect, I’ve started another thread purely to leave this thread free for its original purpose and for the ongoing research. They’re free to rant at me over there until their hearts content.
                Regards

                Michael🔎


                " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post

                  Ah. That wasn't the Blandford Weekly News? In that case forget what I said, because it was based on the reports in the Blandford Weekly News.
                  Let me explain. I created a huge file of Blandford Weekly News clippings, but it's entirely possible that a Western Gazette clipping got in there by mistake (I've come to recognize Gary's gentle and dry sarcasm and realized he was doubting my source in his initial post) so I'll have to go back and check. I'll give you a definitive answer later.

                  What mainly interested me wasn't the location, but that this reference to a fee could mean that some cricket matches around the area were never reported for the simple reason that the team in question didn't want to bother mailing in a half-a-crown of postage stamps--particularly if their team had lost (!) The winner, I suppose, was often left picking up the tab.

                  Comment


                  • I evidently threw another hand grenade into the room with my reference to an M.J. Druitt playing football for Christchurch in 1889, but there can really be no doubt that this was a one-off error.

                    It raises doubts...but only barely. There are so many references to M.J. Druitt playing cricket in Dorset in August during the 1880s (and even in his hometown of Wimborne Minster or for Bournemout where his brother lived) that we know it must be him. These games coincide perfectly with Druitt's summer break from the Blackheath School and all reference to him playing cricket in London suddenly stop in August. Thus, the inference is unavoidable. Monty is also referred to as M.J. Druitt at Winchester and Oxford in the 1870s, where we know he was enrolled.

                    But all these references dry up after 1888--with this one exception, and it is football and not cricket. The article in the Cricketeer reprinted by Gary over yonder is a reference to MJ Druitt playing for the Incognito team in Dulwich in May 1888--this is our drowned school master, still a happy man and scoring 47 runs.

                    The 1889 reference to "M.J. Druitt" playing football for Christchurch has to be Melvill (which is evidently how he spelled it). Throughout the 1890s he is very frequently referred to as 'M. Druitt'--but never again, that I can find, to M.J.

                    The doubt it raises is slight, but even a shadow of a doubt is some doubt. And this doubt is more irritating because an 'M. Druitt' played cricket at Blandford in 1885.

                    The printer's devil setting type at the Blandford News should have known better---the same paper reported M.J. Druitt's funeral the year before. His apparent carelessness left us with an irritating complication. A dried pea under the mattress, if I can use that metaphor, but I personally have no doubt it is Monty playing cricket down in Dorset over his summer breaks.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post
                      I evidently threw another hand grenade into the room with my reference to an M.J. Druitt playing football for Christchurch in 1889, but there can really be no doubt that this was a one-off error.

                      It raises doubts...but only barely. There are so many references to M.J. Druitt playing cricket in Dorset in August during the 1880s (and even in his hometown of Wimborne Minster or for Bournemout where his brother lived) that we know it must be him. These games coincide perfectly with Druitt's summer break from the Blackheath School and all reference to him playing cricket in London suddenly stop in August. Thus, the inference is unavoidable. Monty is also referred to as M.J. Druitt at Winchester and Oxford in the 1870s, where we know he was enrolled.

                      But all these references dry up after 1888--with this one exception, and it is football and not cricket. The article in the Cricketeer reprinted by Gary over yonder is a reference to MJ Druitt playing for the Incognito team in Dulwich in May 1888--this is our drowned school master, still a happy man and scoring 47 runs.

                      The 1889 reference to "M.J. Druitt" playing football for Christchurch has to be Melvill (which is evidently how he spelled it). Throughout the 1890s he is very frequently referred to a 'M. Druitt.'

                      The doubt it raises is slight, but even a shadow of a doubt is some doubt. And this doubt is more irritating because an 'M. Druitt' played cricket at Blandford in 1885.

                      The printer's devil setting type at the Blandford News should have known better---the same paper reported M.J. Druitt's funeral the year before. His apparent carelessness left us with an irritating complication. A dried pea under the mattress, if I can use that metaphor, but I personally have no doubt it is Monty playing cricket down in Dorset over his summer breaks.
                      I think the prowess of the man who played at Blandford would point to Montague, even if we didn't have any initials to go on.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by J.W. Sage View Post

                        Plenty of gay men have been repressed enough to engage in heterosexual marriage down the years. Does not make them serial killers. A pathological desire to inflict pain and suffering causes that.

                        Thanks for the reading advice.
                        it goes without saying that not all gay men who have been repressed into heterosexual marrriages become serial killers. Then again, I never said they did. I said that it very clearly seems like Bruce McArthurs double life was what ultimately led to his killing spree - meaning that some gay men who are repressed into heterosexual marriages may well turn into serial killers. The overall point I was making was that serial killers often come from abusive environments, and abuse can come in many shapes. Many researchers mean that the element that serial killers feel. ost deprived of is control, and it seems this may well have been the case for McArthur.

                        You write "A pathological desire to inflict pain and suffering causes that." If I am correct in thinking that the last word in the sentence should be "does", I agree - to a degree. First, not all serial killers are interested in inflicting pain and suffering. But the sexual serial killers are very often of this type. And that would, I believe, more often than not reflect back to a wish to expert control over people, the ultimate control being in charge of the question of life or death.
                        "In these matters it is the little things that tell the tales" - Coroner Wynne Baxter during the Nichols inquest.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Michael Banks View Post
                          Although I’m not really inclined to go over the same old ground about Druitt and Macnaughten with people who obviously lose sleep over the fact that some people find Druitt an interesting suspect, I’ve started another thread purely to leave this thread free for its original purpose and for the ongoing research. They’re free to rant at me over there until their hearts content.
                          You´ll be relieved then to hear that I am loosing no sleep whatsoever over how people find Druitt an interesting suspect. I do so myself, he is one of the most interesting suspects there is if you ask me. Not for reasons of being viable, but nevertheless!
                          "In these matters it is the little things that tell the tales" - Coroner Wynne Baxter during the Nichols inquest.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post
                            I evidently threw another hand grenade into the room with my reference to an M.J. Druitt playing football for Christchurch in 1889, but there can really be no doubt that this was a one-off error.

                            It raises doubts...but only barely. There are so many references to M.J. Druitt playing cricket in Dorset in August during the 1880s (and even in his hometown of Wimborne Minster or for Bournemout where his brother lived) that we know it must be him. These games coincide perfectly with Druitt's summer break from the Blackheath School and all reference to him playing cricket in London suddenly stop in August. Thus, the inference is unavoidable. Monty is also referred to as M.J. Druitt at Winchester and Oxford in the 1870s, where we know he was enrolled.

                            But all these references dry up after 1888--with this one exception, and it is football and not cricket. The article in the Cricketeer reprinted by Gary over yonder is a reference to MJ Druitt playing for the Incognito team in Dulwich in May 1888--this is our drowned school master, still a happy man and scoring 47 runs.

                            The 1889 reference to "M.J. Druitt" playing football for Christchurch has to be Melvill (which is evidently how he spelled it). Throughout the 1890s he is very frequently referred to as 'M. Druitt'--but never again, that I can find, to M.J.

                            The doubt it raises is slight, but even a shadow of a doubt is some doubt. And this doubt is more irritating because an 'M. Druitt' played cricket at Blandford in 1885.

                            The printer's devil setting type at the Blandford News should have known better---the same paper reported M.J. Druitt's funeral the year before. His apparent carelessness left us with an irritating complication. A dried pea under the mattress, if I can use that metaphor, but I personally have no doubt it is Monty playing cricket down in Dorset over his summer breaks.
                            R. J.,

                            Did you see the 1889 reference to MJD in ‘CRICKET’ I posted on Casebook? I suspect it referred to the previous season, but I’m not sure.

                            I agree the MJD in the football report is almost probably Melville.


                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post

                              I think the prowess of the man who played at Blandford would point to Montague, even if we didn't have any initials to go on.
                              I noticed the following and thought it was enlightening. Evidently, even these smaller clubs in Dorset weren't opposed to bringing in a heavy weight to 'stack the deck,' as it were. Someone on the Isle of Purbeck team may have heard that MJD was down visiting and jumped at the chance to enlist a good bowler. At least that's how I see it.

                              Click image for larger version

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                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post

                                I noticed the following and thought it was enlightening. Evidently, even these smaller clubs in Dorset weren't opposed to bringing in a heavy weight to 'stack the deck,' as it were. Someone on the Isle of Purbeck team may have heard that MJD was down visiting and jumped at the chance to enlist a good bowler. At least that's how I see it.

                                Click image for larger version  Name:	Professional.jpg Views:	0 Size:	54.7 KB ID:	588940

                                Yes, and Blandford engaged two professional bowlers from the 1887 season [Blandford Weekly News, 23 April 1887]. There's another reference that year to Shaftesbury having a professional named Perkins bowling [BWN, 18 June 1887]. And evidently Blandford still had a professional in 1888, though on one occasion it was noted that his performance wasn't up to expectations [BWN, 2 and 16 June].

                                They seem to have taken the game very seriously in Blandford.

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