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Proof of Innocence?

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  • I would leave it here.
    If new threads are started it becomes difficult in future years to follow the discourse.

    I would ask for generalised Druitt stuff to be elsewhere.
    And other Druitt cricket matches elsewhere as well.

    This should be about the Blandford match and matters particular to that.

    Comment


    • OK - let's try appealing to people to use the other thread for general discussion about the plausibility of Druitt as a suspect and keep this one for the specific topic of cricket. I also think it would be better to make it specific to the Blandford match, and to have a new thread for the Bournemouth match.

      If that doesn't work we can either start a new thread for what was meant to be the topic of this thread, or we can consider moving off-topic posts out of this thread, but obviously it would be good to avoid that.

      Comment


      • I am moving the discussion about whether or not Druitt conforms to how other serial killers developed on an old thread named "The Basis of Druitts Candidacy", which is what things are about, more so than any "Druitt/Macnaghten hysteria". Let´s leave this thread to those who understand cricket...
        "In these matters it is the little things that tell the tales" - Coroner Wynne Baxter during the Nichols inquest.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
          Hi Caz,

          Perhaps by using the name and suicide details of Druitt, but contriving to get his age and profession wrong, Macnaghten was actually disguising the identity of his real suspect.

          Merely a passing thought.

          Regards,

          Simon
          Hi Simon,

          I did wonder about that very possibility, Simon, but like yours, it was merely a passing thought. He had no business bringing poor Druitt's name into it at all, if he suspected someone else entirely.

          Macnaghten felt privileged to be the recipient of inside knowledge [speculation if you prefer] about Druitt, and this aspect of human nature has persisted over the years, leading to many a modern ego in similar circumstances convincing themselves that they were 'chosen' to crack the case and identify the real ripper. How many times has the case been 'closed', with a book naming a different suspect?

          We've seen the treatment with D'Onston, Tumblety and Sickert, where something impersonal like a letter or a contact's hint has sent the theorist off on another fruitless manhunt. And when a theorist has some personal or family link back to a potential suspect, the belief in his guilt can be even stronger, for reasons I cannot begin to fathom. If anyone suggested a relative of mine, or of Mister Brown's, or anyone associated with the family, was the ripper, I doubt I would embrace the idea with unashamed relish. And Macnaghten may have had a touch too much Gentleman's Relish for fingering Druit - if you'll pardon the expression. Worse still, we had the example of Uncle Jack, and I'm sure there's another one - ah yes, the carman with two names who ought to have no business on a Druitt thread. But we are stuck with these odd personal connections between theorist and suspect.

          Love,

          Caz
          X
          I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Christer Holmgren View Post
            I am moving the discussion about whether or not Druitt conforms to how other serial killers developed on an old thread named "The Basis of Druitts Candidacy", which is what things are about, more so than any "Druitt/Macnaghten hysteria". Let´s leave this thread to those who understand cricket...
            Thanks. Though those of us who don't understand cricket are still welcome to discuss it here ...

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Caroline Brown View Post

              Hi Simon,

              I did wonder about that very possibility, Simon, but like yours, it was merely a passing thought. He had no business bringing poor Druitt's name into it at all, if he suspected someone else entirely.

              Macnaghten felt privileged to be the recipient of inside knowledge [speculation if you prefer] about Druitt, and this aspect of human nature has persisted over the years, leading to many a modern ego in similar circumstances convincing themselves that they were 'chosen' to crack the case and identify the real ripper. How many times has the case been 'closed', with a book naming a different suspect?

              We've seen the treatment with D'Onston, Tumblety and Sickert, where something impersonal like a letter or a contact's hint has sent the theorist off on another fruitless manhunt. And when a theorist has some personal or family link back to a potential suspect, the belief in his guilt can be even stronger, for reasons I cannot begin to fathom. If anyone suggested a relative of mine, or of Mister Brown's, or anyone associated with the family, was the ripper, I doubt I would embrace the idea with unashamed relish. And Macnaghten may have had a touch too much Gentleman's Relish for fingering Druit - if you'll pardon the expression. Worse still, we had the example of Uncle Jack, and I'm sure there's another one - ah yes, the carman with two names who ought to have no business on a Druitt thread. But we are stuck with these odd personal connections between theorist and suspect.

              Love,

              Caz
              X
              You may have missed it it, Caz, but the non-crickety discussion about Druitt has been moved to the thread Montague Druitt: "The Basis of Druitts Candidacy".
              "In these matters it is the little things that tell the tales" - Coroner Wynne Baxter during the Nichols inquest.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Christer Holmgren View Post
                It would not have made any difference if the man found by Nichols body and who said he was a witness had been a horse salesman from Reading, a professor in botanics, a billionaire from Texas or the pope.
                I beg to differ, Christer. In any of those other circumstances, that man would not have had the ideal excuse for being precisely where he was when Robert Paul came along.

                Druitt couldn't have hung around at the scene, could he? Anyone other than your suspect obviously didn't hang around, waiting for the next man to arrive.

                Your suspect couldn't afford to hang around at any future crime scenes, even if he had a closer call with an approaching witness. He only had the one joker, and his use of it in Buck's Row was all down to Robert Paul.

                Isn't it more likely that a murder victim will be discovered by some poor sod going about his normal business?

                How many serial killers have been in a position where they were able to double up as the finder of one of their outdoor victims, and go on to present themselves at the inquest, due to the fact that they'd have been there anyway at that hour?

                Has this ever happened to your knowledge, or would this be a one-off?

                Love,

                Caz
                X
                I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post

                  If you do, there is also Tribbett's Wareham Advertiser/J. W. Tribbett's Wareham and Isle of Purbeck Advertiser, and Swanage Visitors' List (all one title), which might have reported the 30 August game from the Purbeck end.
                  I don't suppose anything useful could be learned about the Dorset matches here:

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisden...rs%27_Almanack

                  Love,

                  Caz
                  X
                  I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Caroline Brown View Post

                    I beg to differ, Christer. In any of those other circumstances, that man would not have had the ideal excuse for being precisely where he was when Robert Paul came along.

                    Druitt couldn't have hung around at the scene, could he? Anyone other than your suspect obviously didn't hang around, waiting for the next man to arrive.

                    Your suspect couldn't afford to hang around at any future crime scenes, even if he had a closer call with an approaching witness. He only had the one joker, and his use of it in Buck's Row was all down to Robert Paul.

                    Isn't it more likely that a murder victim will be discovered by some poor sod going about his normal business?

                    How many serial killers have been in a position where they were able to double up as the finder of one of their outdoor victims, and go on to present themselves at the inquest, due to the fact that they'd have been there anyway at that hour?

                    Has this ever happened to your knowledge, or would this be a one-off?

                    Love,

                    Caz
                    X
                    You will find my answer on the thread Montague Druitt: The Basis of Druitts candidacy, where this discussion has been moved to.
                    "In these matters it is the little things that tell the tales" - Coroner Wynne Baxter during the Nichols inquest.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
                      Yes Mrs Brown I am an Old Whitgiftian. From the 1970s. I know that is hard to believe given my fresh face and cherubic complexion. I lived in Wallington.
                      To get home, sometimes, when we were being daring, we 'walked to Waddon' - and got the train from there. It was regarded as being daring as one had to walk through the Waddon estate in our Whitgift uniform, with the ever present danger of attack from marauding members of the working classes. I seem to recall there was one notorious family who lived there called Morris.


                      I moved to Waddon in 1978 and became a Morris when I took up with a lowly gas project engineer, who had an apprentice working under him at the gas works who is an Old Whitgiftian. He would have been there in the 70s too. His daddy was a big noise in gas, so he followed him into the industry. He was notorious for breaking hearts all over Croydon. Probably still is. Small world, eh?

                      My daughter had a Waddon accent at the age of four, but after a week or two at private school was talking with a plum in her mouth.

                      Love,

                      Mrs Brown, now married to a complete cricket nut, and watching Bodyline for about the fourth time
                      X

                      PS I was once asked to do the scoring for a cricket match in Beddington, near The Plough. I had to learn fast!
                      I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by J.W. Sage View Post

                        Ted Bundy was involved with politics. John Wayne Gacy was a successful local businessman. Denis Nielsen was a civil servant. There are many more examples.

                        Whilst not exactly bastions of high society, they were not living on the edges of society either. They functioned at a good level.

                        Serial killer flags of psychological disturbances are usually exhibited from a far younger age than teenage years.

                        Realistically there is every chance of Druitt being a psychopath as there is Lechmere, and we know equally little about both that gives us hard indicators of such.

                        What I will add is that suicide of serial killers happens usually just before or after they are caught. I’m not aware of any incidence where a serial killer has killed themselves because of remorse before capture. Druitt’s note that his brother found suggests he was more concerned generally with his own mental health which he probably felt was escalating after his dismissal.

                        I struggle to see Druitt fitting the psychological profile of a serial killer but it would be churlish to rule it out outright.
                        While serial killers show no remorse for what they inflict on others, I imagine they feel very sorry for themselves when anything bad happens to them personally, or prevents them carrying on as normal. We usually think of them only committing suicide if they are caught, or when their continued freedom is under direct threat, but could that not extend to a debilitating illness, physical or mental, that has the same effect of putting an end to their obsessive behaviour?

                        If, for instance, Druitt killed himself while suffering from clinical depression, which was not brought on by external circumstances, but would have greatly affected his everyday life, would that make him less likely to have been a serial killer? Are serial killers immune to the condition?

                        Love,

                        Caz
                        X
                        I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

                        Comment


                        • Incidentally, having just looked at the Bournemouth Guardian for the 1888 cricket week, it seems that the Blandford Weekly News went over to the same format as the Guardian for its sports coverage in 1889, with a calendar, a column under the same pseudonym ("Offside") and then results, all on page 2. It looks as though the Weekly News had been taken over by the same publisher. That would explain the less complete and often briefer coverage of Blandford C.C. in 1889.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
                            I would leave it here.
                            If new threads are started it becomes difficult in future years to follow the discourse.

                            I would ask for generalised Druitt stuff to be elsewhere.
                            And other Druitt cricket matches elsewhere as well.

                            This should be about the Blandford match and matters particular to that.
                            Unless you start the new thread with a link to this one…

                            Comment


                            • I wonder if this is available online?

                              https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Boo...tches%2Bseason

                              Comment


                              • This thread should - I think - be about all things related to the 30th match.
                                Associated cricket that informs us about it.
                                The whys and wherefores of Blandford society the expo, the Rec.
                                The local rail network.
                                Getting up to London and back for 1st
                                That is plenty for one thread I think.

                                Comment

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