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  • Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post

    I think you are misunderstanding my notes. The match didn't end at 4.45. The first innings of Blandford ended at 4.45, and the fear was that their opponents (Shaftesbury) might not have time to complete their first innings after that. That is, there might not be time for Shaftesbury's first innings between 4.45 and the finishing time of the game (whenever that was).
    I get that - I think.

    I'm not suggesting the match ended at 4.45.

    I am asking what was the reason for their 'fear' at 4.45 pm that Shaftebury's first innings won't have time to finish? What is looming in the future, if not a train and not sundown which are still 165 minutes away?

    Isn't that what we are trying to determine?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post
      Sundown in Dorset on August 17 is given as 7.25 p.m.

      The Rise and Demise of the Blandford Railway Station. Nice pictures.


      rise-demise-panel-lo-res-9th-july.pdf (blandfordforum-tc.gov.uk)
      Thanks for the link, RJ. Very interesting.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post

        I get that - I think.

        I'm not suggesting the match ended at 4.45.

        I am asking what was the reason for their 'fear' at 4.45 pm that Shaftebury's first innings won't have time to finish? What is looming in the future, if not a train and not sundown which are still 165 minutes away?

        Isn't that what we are trying to determine?
        I think just a prearranged finishing time for the game, which according to the sources I saw on Google Books was typically between 5.30 and 7. The first source, from 1894, refers to "the customary hour of seven", though exactly which matches it was customary for isn't clear. That was in June, so it wasn't sunset. Maybe it could sometimes have been to get a particular train, but I think it obviously wasn't that either for some of the Google Books examples, for example the one between two Cambridge college sides. Maybe it was just a reasonable time for the sides to finish by in order to have dinner/go to the pub.

        Comment


        • If it was feared that at team wouldn’t have had time to finish an innings after 4.45 I’d have thought that it could only have been due to the declining light? I really don’t think that you can have a pre-arranged finish time for a game of cricket. I’ve certainly never heard of that idea.

          Chris, I could be wrong but I’d strongly assume that ‘the customary hour of seven,’ would mean the end of the days play in a game of more that one day. It could refer to a one innings game but you never hear of cricket matches being ended because time has run out. If the weather and light is ok they will play on to a result.
          Regards

          Michael🔎


          " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

          Comment


          • I think there is virtually no chance that this was a league match for the simple reason that there is no mention whatsoever anywhere about a league.
            Home and away matches were common and were a courtesy.
            At Whitgift, if I may play that card again, we had home and away matches at Rugby (my game) and Cricket (too effete, reserved for coves like Druitt) with all the surrounding, mostly second rate, Public Schools. There was no league. This is clearly how they played local cricket in the 1880s.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
              I think there is virtually no chance that this was a league match for the simple reason that there is no mention whatsoever anywhere about a league.
              Home and away matches were common and were a courtesy.
              At Whitgift, if I may play that card again, we had home and away matches at Rugby (my game) and Cricket (too effete, reserved for coves like Druitt) with all the surrounding, mostly second rate, Public Schools. There was no league. This is clearly how they played local cricket in the 1880s.
              No, I haven't seen any mention of a league in the newspaper reports, including the ones in 1889 that give an overview of how the cricket season in the area was progressing and including the reports of the annual cricket club dinner, where batting averages and so on were given.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Michael Banks View Post
                If it was feared that at team wouldn’t have had time to finish an innings after 4.45 I’d have thought that it could only have been due to the declining light? I really don’t think that you can have a pre-arranged finish time for a game of cricket. I’ve certainly never heard of that idea.
                I think Blandford clearly did have a prearranged time for finishing the match, on at least one occasion, the match against Mr Douglas Smith's XI on Thursday 2 August 1888. I'm posting the report below.:

                Click image for larger version

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                Originally posted by Michael Banks View Post
                Chris, I could be wrong but I’d strongly assume that ‘the customary hour of seven,’ would mean the end of the days play in a game of more that one day. It could refer to a one innings game but you never hear of cricket matches being ended because time has run out. If the weather and light is ok they will play on to a result.
                I have tried to indicate in the list I posted which matches were more than one day. But I did find the article that referred to the "customary hour" very confusingly written. Looking at it again, this does refer to the first day of a two-day match. But I think the account makes it clear that a finishing time was fixed on both days, because on the second day Surrey is described as winning "just on the stroke of time":

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                Comment


                • I have prepared a map of the local train lines for 1888 - accurately I hope - to give some idea of the interconnections necessary to get from match to match by train and to London (if required).
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
                    I have prepared a map of the local train lines for 1888 - accurately I hope - to give some idea of the interconnections necessary to get from match to match by train and to London (if required).
                    Well done, sir.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post

                      I think Blandford clearly did have a prearranged time for finishing the match, on at least one occasion, the match against Mr Douglas Smith's XI on Thursday 2 August 1888. I'm posting the report below.:

                      Click image for larger version

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ID:	589354



                      I have tried to indicate in the list I posted which matches were more than one day. But I did find the article that referred to the "customary hour" very confusingly written. Looking at it again, this does refer to the first day of a two-day match. But I think the account makes it clear that a finishing time was fixed on both days, because on the second day Surrey is described as winning "just on the stroke of time":

                      Click image for larger version

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                      As far as the county game (Yorkshire) is concerned Chris that game would have been scheduled over 3 days I believe. These days county 2 innings games are played over 4 days. The change from 3 to 4 days duration occurred in fairly recent years. Each day would certainly have had a scheduled finish time. I’m unsure about cricket in those days but today in test matches (international games played over 5 days) play can be extended on the last day if there is a reasonable chance of a result being achieved. Today if 4 or 5 day games can’t be completed in scheduled time a draw can be declared. In one day games (games of one innings per side) the games are played to a result even after the scheduled finish time as long as the weather doesn’t make it impossible or unfair for the team batting (teamswouldn’t be expected to bat in poor light.) Again I can only compare with the modern game but it’s occasionally the case where an umpire might say that the teams can play on for a result as long as the bowling team don’t use their faster bowlers due to the danger involved.
                      Regards

                      Michael🔎


                      " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Michael Banks View Post

                        As far as the county game (Yorkshire) is concerned Chris that game would have been scheduled over 3 days I believe. These days county 2 innings games are played over 4 days. The change from 3 to 4 days duration occurred in fairly recent years. Each day would certainly have had a scheduled finish time. I’m unsure about cricket in those days but today in test matches (international games played over 5 days) play can be extended on the last day if there is a reasonable chance of a result being achieved. Today if 4 or 5 day games can’t be completed in scheduled time a draw can be declared. In one day games (games of one innings per side) the games are played to a result even after the scheduled finish time as long as the weather doesn’t make it impossible or unfair for the team batting (teamswouldn’t be expected to bat in poor light.) Again I can only compare with the modern game but it’s occasionally the case where an umpire might say that the teams can play on for a result as long as the bowling team don’t use their faster bowlers due to the danger involved.

                        If you do a Google Books search for "cricket" and "the stroke of time" (together), you'll find many references from the 19th and early 20th century to games being won "on the stroke of time". Can you think of any other interpretation of that, except that a time had been fixed for the end of the game, and it was won (almost) at that time?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post


                          If you do a Google Books search for "cricket" and "the stroke of time" (together), you'll find many references from the 19th and early 20th century to games being won "on the stroke of time". Can you think of any other interpretation of that, except that a time had been fixed for the end of the game, and it was won (almost) at that time?
                          I don’t think that there can be another explanation Chris. There would certainly have been a scheduled end time for some matches. The only point that I’d make is that if a game reached that time and there was a reasonable chance of a result within a reasonable amount of time (especially in a non-league game, the game could have been allowed to play on to a conclusion. But if, as an example, it got to a 7pm scheduled finishing time and the team batting still needed a 100 runs to win there would have been no point in carrying on in the fading light.
                          Regards

                          Michael🔎


                          " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Michael Banks View Post

                            I don’t think that there can be another explanation Chris. There would certainly have been a scheduled end time for some matches. The only point that I’d make is that if a game reached that time and there was a reasonable chance of a result within a reasonable amount of time (especially in a non-league game, the game could have been allowed to play on to a conclusion. But if, as an example, it got to a 7pm scheduled finishing time and the team batting still needed a 100 runs to win there would have been no point in carrying on in the fading light.
                            It's just that you said above "I really don’t think that you can have a pre-arranged finish time for a game of cricket. I’ve certainly never heard of that idea."

                            Comment


                            • We know that the Blandford Town band sometimes performed at the Recreation Ground in the evening and we’ve seen it mentioned that away teams in rural Dorset journeyed home by train. That supplies us with two possible reasons why Blandford games might have had a fixed finish time. There may have been other reasons. The game we are interested in was played during a Town festival, there may have been other scheduled events that members of the home team wished to attend.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                                We know that the Blandford Town band sometimes performed at the Recreation Ground in the evening and we’ve seen it mentioned that away teams in rural Dorset journeyed home by train. That supplies us with two possible reasons why Blandford games might have had a fixed finish time. There may have been other reasons. The game we are interested in was played during a Town festival, there may have been other scheduled events that members of the home team wished to attend.
                                The way I read it, it sounds as though they always set out to play a two-innings game, and always had a specified time limit. Sometimes they didn't complete one innings, sometimes they completed exactly one, sometimes only one team started a second innings and didn't complete it, sometimes one team completed its second innings and the other one didn't, and sometimes both teams completed their second innings. Where a reason is given for the game not being completed, it is weather in one case and "time" in all the others. It's never bad light.

                                Comment

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