Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Proof of Innocence?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
    This thread is supposed to be strictly about the cricket match and possible travel upwards to London, not general Druitt ruminations... isn't it RJP?
    Perhaps so, Ed, but aren't you the one who introduced the topic in Post 1008?

    Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
    When not sampling the nefarious and exotic delights of Wilson's Chummery in Chiswick.
    If Druitt went to London on August 30th, I don't think we need to seriously entertain The Chummery as a landing spot, if that was your suggestion.

    Comment


    • But if Druitt bought a return ticket from Charing Cross rather than Waterloo, it’s possibly suggestive of his having been at his chambers that weekend.

      Comment


      • There seems to be something of a tangle developing here. In post 1008 I was discussing potential accomodations that Druitt might have availed himself had he sped up to London after playing cricket in Dorset on 30th August. A possibility which I think is slim - and Slim has left town. I gave one such extremely unlikely hypothetical possibility as Wilson's Chummery. Wilson's Chummery is widely suspected as being an Upper Middle Class Gay hang out, from which I doubt that Oxford men were barred.
        As I think it is extremely likely that Druitt was Gay (based on supporting evidence I have recounted on numerous occasions) and as he ended up being fished out of the river a few hundred yards downstream from Wilson's Chummery, there has to be a distinct possibility that Druitt was familiar with the place.
        Why don't you want to entertain the possibility that Druitt could have gone there on 30th August (if we play the game that he did come up to London)?
        The Chambers were effectively out of bounds - yet I see repeated attempts to have Druitt doss down there.
        His Blackheath rooms were similarly probably not available to him, yet, again, we have repeated attempts to entertain his presence there.
        More likely than either I would suggest is the Chummery. Most likely would be some random hotel near Waterloo.

        That Trevor Marriot and various others have also suggested that Druitt may have sampled the delights of the Chummery does not imply that we are all chums, nor that we all share other theories based upon Druitt's possible association with that property. Why on earth should it? Isn't that obvious?
        I know the Chummery is a location that has the same affect on Druittists that garlic has to Vampires. Perhaps that's why I mentioned it. The effect took so long to emerge that I had totally forgotten I had even said it.

        The distances from Hammersmith Station to the Chummery and what station may have been nearer or more convenient has no relevance to Druitt's hypothetical movements on the night of 30th August.
        If you must discuss it with relevance to his suicide, it is 1.1 miles from Hammersmith Station to the Chummery at the Osiers,Click image for larger version  Name:	druitt chiswick.jpg Views:	0 Size:	467.2 KB ID:	591306 via a pleasant riverside walk. With the Osiers right on the river - within jumping distance.
        It is 1.4 miles to Tuke's asylum at Manor House on Chiswick Lane, which was far inland... and is the pre-suicide destination favoured by Druitists (covert and overt).

        Druitt's Chiswick
        1 = The Osiers (Wilson's Chummery)
        2 = Thorneycroft's yard (Church Wharf)
        3 = Tuke's Asylum (Manor House)
        4 = The Lamb (Inquest)
        5 = Hammersmith Station

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
          The distances from Hammersmith Station to the Chummery and what station may have been nearer or more convenient has no relevance to Druitt's hypothetical movements on the night of 30th August.

          As you note, there is a bit of a 'tangle' here.

          The relevance is that if Druitt was truly a member of the 'Chummery' (The Osiers) he would have known what stop to take!

          Following the lead of Howells & Skinner, you are using the final location of Druitt's bloated corpse in December 1888 to link him to The Osiers. The implication being that MJD's intention was to visit this alleged seat of high-brow homosexuality at the time of his suicide or murder.

          Yet, despite the claim of H & S, the destination of Druitt's final ticket was not Chiswick--it was Hammersmith.

          Obviously, this must be considered part of the calculation. Shouldn't we challenge old assumptions?

          With this in mind, I do thank you for the excellent map, but can I suggest an addition?

          No 6: Ravenscourt Park Tube Station.


          Click image for larger version  Name:	Druitt and The Osiers.jpg Views:	0 Size:	176.0 KB ID:	591315

          Ravenscourt Park station was fully operational in 1888 and was used on Saturdays--which is relevant because December 1, 1888, the date of MJD's ticket from Charing Cross to Hammersmith, was a Saturday.

          The implication of your map is somewhat deceptive because Ravenscourt Park is left off. It is just a short distance off the top border, as indicated by my arrow. One can confirm this by looking at the modern map that I'm including at the end of my post, using Riverscourt Road (in yellow) as the reference.

          If Druitt simply bought a ticket for the next stop, he would have been left with half the walk to The Osiers.

          (Roughly .6 of a mile; the distance from Hammersmith was about 1.1 miles)

          If Druitt was truly associated with this alleged homosexual club, wouldn't he have known what stop to take?

          What this suggests is that Howells & Skinner simply got it wrong, and Druitt's final destination was never meant to be Chiswick.

          That destroys one link in their weak chain of evidence linking Druitt to a secret homosexual society.

          Frankly, I couldn't care less whether or not Druitt was homosexual. I just think the evidence for it isn't strong.


          Click image for larger version  Name:	Ravenscourt Park Train Station.jpg Views:	0 Size:	43.3 KB ID:	591316

          Comment


          • Ed,

            Why were the Chambers ‘out of bounds’?

            Comment


            • RJP
              The distance from Hammersmith to the Osiers does not stop DRuittists from suggesting his destination was Tuke's asylum which was furtehr.
              Being of unsound mind perhaps Druitt wanted to walk along the Thames to clear his mind in contemplation before - who knows - meeting up with his lover at the Chummery, in the mistaken belief that he might find solace among like-minded souls.
              That is not exactly an outlandish suggestion.

              Gary
              His shared office space at Kings Bench Chambers was not for residential use - that is why it would have been out of bounds. Some people lived in - Druitt didn't.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
                RJP
                The distance from Hammersmith to the Osiers does not stop DRuittists from suggesting his destination was Tuke's asylum which was furtehr.
                Being of unsound mind perhaps Druitt wanted to walk along the Thames to clear his mind in contemplation before - who knows - meeting up with his lover at the Chummery, in the mistaken belief that he might find solace among like-minded souls.
                That is not exactly an outlandish suggestion.

                Gary
                His shared office space at Kings Bench Chambers was not for residential use - that is why it would have been out of bounds. Some people lived in - Druitt didn't.
                He didn’t have to ‘live in’ to use his office outside of normal business hours. We’ve read that it was easy to access the Temple. When I worked in an office in Wigmore Street, it was quite often used out of hours by staffers who were in the West End enjoying its delights.

                I see no reason why Druitt couldn’t have waltzed past the gatekeeper whenever he wanted.

                Comment


                • The precincts of the Temple would have been accessible. The offices at Kings Bench Walk are another matter. The clerks would have been in early. There were also some people legitimately living in.
                  Druitt would have had to illegitimately sneak in and out. Hardly a secure bolt hole.
                  Your office reminiscences are not really on a par.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
                    The precincts of the Temple would have been accessible. The offices at Kings Bench Walk are another matter. The clerks would have been in early. There were also some people legitimately living in.
                    Druitt would have had to illegitimately sneak in and out. Hardly a secure bolt hole.
                    Your office reminiscences are not really on a par.
                    How on earth do you know that?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
                      RJP
                      The distance from Hammersmith to the Osiers does not stop DRuittists from suggesting his destination was Tuke's asylum which was furtehr.
                      Being of unsound mind perhaps Druitt wanted to walk along the Thames to clear his mind in contemplation before - who knows - meeting up with his lover at the Chummery, in the mistaken belief that he might find solace among like-minded souls.
                      That is not exactly an outlandish suggestion.
                      Hi Ed,

                      It is indeed a delightful walk along the Thames from Hammersmith Bridge, and possibly Druitt wanted one last chance to - as you say - clear his mind, before taking that final step into permanent oblivion. If it had been spring or summer, the peace and tranquility of the walk might just have made him pause, but in the winter it was less likely to lift the spirits of anyone suffering from depression.

                      Love,

                      Caz
                      X
                      I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

                      Comment


                      • Mrs Brown, some seek inspiration from the bleak, the austere early winter winds, the rain lashing across Old Father Thames. It might have matched his mood.
                        Then again perhaps Druitt miscalculated and the walk tipped him over the edge... literally.

                        Gary it is recorded. The Temple is not some far off mystical land of which we know little.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
                          Being of unsound mind perhaps Druitt wanted to walk along the Thames to clear his mind in contemplation before - who knows - meeting up with his lover at the Chummery, in the mistaken belief that he might find solace among like-minded souls.
                          That is not exactly an outlandish suggestion.
                          It has been written that Harry Wilson had deep connections to Toynbee Hall (he became the honorary secretary, or some such title, after Prince Eddy's death).

                          Are you willing to speculate that Wilson also introduced Druitt to the members of a building that backed-up George Yard, or just the chummery in the safely remote Chiswick?

                          It might be a case of "be careful what you wish for, Ed."

                          Comment


                          • We can connect Druitt to the Chummery via his body being washed up near by and via the evidence that points towards his possible/probable homosexuality.
                            No such connections link Druitt to Toynbee Hall.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
                              the evidence that points towards his possible/probable homosexuality.
                              What evidence is that?

                              Comment


                              • So basically it’s being suggested that Druitt was of ‘no fixed abode?’ The cricket evidence has been shown not to prove that Druitt couldn’t have returned to London after all so now we’re trying to show that he had nowhere to stay even if he could have returned!

                                “His Blackheath rooms were similarly probably not available to him, yet, again, we have repeated attempts to entertain his presence there.”

                                So it’s an unknown that should be treated a a known?
                                Regards

                                Michael🔎


                                " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X