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Bournemouth Cricket Week, 1888

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  • #16
    Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post
    Let me move this over here and repeat it, because it is relevant, and is the main reason I brought up this week of cricket. I'm going to be a little hard on Mr. Leighton.

    From Montague Druitt: Portrait of a Contender, by D, J. Leighton, p, 110.

    "On 3 and 4 August he played for the Gentleman of Bournemouth against the Parsees, a visiting Indian touring side. A couple of days later he played for the Gentleman of Dorset against the same opposition [ie., the Parsees]. The following weekend on 10 and 11 August he turned out for the Gentlemen of Dorset against Bournemouth at the end of the latter's cricket week."

    The cricket matches on 3/4 August and 10/11 August have been documented and MJ Druitt played in those matches. This much is true.

    By contrast, the August 6th match has never been located.

    In order to maintain objectivity, we need to hold the skeptics to the same standards as those 'prosecuting' a suspect. If someone claimed Druitt had been in Mile-End on August 6th, we would demand to see the evidence. In the current case, Leighton has Druitt down in Dorset on August 6th, but gives no source.

    In reality, the Parsees can be seen to be playing in Norfolk on August 7th and in Cambridge on the 8th and 9th. This strongly suggests they had left the area. In another passage, Leighton appears to place MJD in Bournemouth during Cricket Week, but there doesn't appear to be any evidence for this, either.

    One thing I noticed long ago when studying all of this is that the Blackheath Club played on August 6th. If Druitt had been in London, one would expect to have seen him playing in that game. He is not listed on the scorecard.

    Currently, we have no idea where he was on August 6th/7th, the date of the Tabram murder.

    For the record, here is the Blackheath v. Charlton Park game on August 6th. No Druitt.



    Click image for larger version Name:	Charlton Park 6 Aug.jpg Views:	0 Size:	44.6 KB ID:	589150
    Perhaps he had intended to be in Bournemouth for the whole of Cricket Week, especially to watch the intended two day MCC match, but an unexpected gap in the programme gave him a free day on the 7th.

    The Parsees were en-route to Norfolk on the Saturday, so there’s little chance they played against the Dorset Gents ‘a couple of days’ after they had played the Bournemouth ones.




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    • #17
      Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post
      [SIZE=16px]Let me move this over here and repeat it, because it is relevant, and is the main reason I brought up this week of cricket. I'm going to be a little hard on Mr. Leighton.

      From Montague Druitt: Portrait of a Contender, by D, J. Leighton, p, 110.

      "On 3 and 4 August he played for the Gentleman of Bournemouth against the Parsees, a visiting Indian touring side. A couple of days later he played for the Gentleman of Dorset against the same opposition [ie., the Parsees]. The following weekend on 10 and 11 August he turned out for the Gentlemen of Dorset against Bournemouth at the end of the latter's cricket week."

      The cricket matches on 3/4 August and 10/11 August have been documented and MJ Druitt played in those matches. This much is true.

      By contrast, the August 6th match has never been located.

      In order to maintain objectivity, we need to hold the skeptics to the same standards as those 'prosecuting' a suspect. If someone claimed Druitt had been in Mile-End on August 6th, we would demand to see the evidence. In the current case, Leighton has Druitt down in Dorset on August 6th, but gives no source, other than a reference to a game that doesn't appear to have been either scheduled, or played.

      In reality, the Parsees can be seen to be playing in Norfolk on August 7th and in Cambridge on the 8th and 9th. This strongly suggests they had left the area. In another passage, Leighton appears to place MJD in Bournemouth during Cricket Week, but there doesn't appear to be any evidence for this, either.
      Just to clarify, do you mean no evidence for his being in Bournemouth in the middle of the week? He played in the first and last matches of the week, on 3 and 4, and 10 and 11 August.

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      • #18
        RJ,

        What do you mean by this:

        ‘…Leighton appears to place MJD in Bournemouth during Cricket Week, but there doesn't appear to be any evidence for this, either.’

        He was there at the beginning and the end, wasn’t he?

        Gary

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        • #19
          Ignore my question, R. J.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post

            Just to clarify, do you mean no evidence for his being in Bournemouth in the middle of the week? He played in the first and last matches of the week, on 3 and 4, and 10 and 11 August.
            Yes, I've already acknowledged on the other thread that MJD could have been in Bournemouth cricket week. It makes sense and it would be a reasonable assumption-- just as it is reasonable to assume that he stayed in Dorset on August 31st since he played the day before and the day after and that only left him with a 40-44 hour missing gap.

            Perhaps what I should have written is that Leighton provided no evidence that Druitt stayed in Bournemouth mid-week; the cricket match he referred to appears to have been very unlikely to have ever been played, and we are also not seeing MJD in the Bournemouth v. M.C.C. match which I find somewhat strange had he been there, since he was associated with both teams in the past.

            The express from Bournemouth West to Waterloo was only 2.5 hours in duration, and this time he has a 5 1/2 day gap.

            On the other hand, as I also noted, he doesn't appear to have been in Blackheath either, or one would have expected to see him playing on Bank Holiday.

            I currently have no idea where he was, and whether his 3/4 August and 10/11th August appearances in Bournemouth are strong or weak circumstantial evidence that he was also there on August 6/7th would depend on how he tended to behave and to lead his life.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post

              Yes, I've already acknowledged on the other thread that MJD could have been in Bournemouth cricket week. It makes sense and it would be a reasonable assumption-- just as it is reasonable to assume that he stayed in Dorset on August 31st since he played the day before and the day after and that only left him with a 40-44 hour missing gap.

              Perhaps what I should have written is that Leighton provided no evidence that Druitt stayed in Bournemouth mid-week; the cricket match he referred to appears to have been very unlikely to have ever been played, and we are also not seeing MJD in the Bournemouth v. M.C.C. match which I find somewhat strange had he been there, since he was associated with both teams in the past.

              The express from Bournemouth West to Waterloo was only 2.5 hours in duration, and this time he has a 5 1/2 day gap.

              On the other hand, as I also noted, he doesn't appear to have been in Blackheath either, or one would have expected to see him playing on Bank Holiday.

              I currently have no idea where he was, and whether his 3/4 August and 10/11th August appearances in Bournemouth are strong or weak circumstantial evidence that he was also there on August 6/7th would depend on how he tended to behave and to lead his life.
              As a cricket player with local connections, I’m sure he would have relished at least watching the M. C. C. match if not playing in it. I would imagine that was the highlight of Cricket Week. That strongly suggests to me he was there on the 6th and had planned to watch the second day’s play that in the event never materialised. He suddenly found himself at a loose end for a day.



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              • #22
                Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post

                As a cricket player with local connections, I’m sure he would have relished at least watching the M. C. C. match if not playing in it. I would imagine that was the highlight of Cricket Week. That strongly suggests to me he was there on the 6th and had planned to watch the second day’s play that in the event never materialised. He suddenly found himself at a loose end for a day.
                Unless he had other obligations. We can argue probabilities, but I think we can agree that hard facts are preferable.

                I found this in the Eastern Daily Press. It shows that the match of Norfolk v. The Parsees actually began on August 6th. And for the record...Druitt wasn't playing on either side.

                So much for Leighton's claim that Druitt was playing the Parsees 'a couple of days' after August 4th. He clearly wasn't.


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                • #23
                  The possibility exists that Druitt played for the Gentleman of Dorset against some other team on August 6th and Leighton made a mistake in his notes, but, as I say, I looked into it 2 or 3 years ago and couldn't trace any such game. It's a puzzling reference.

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                  • #24
                    It's quite satisfying to see a conclusive answer to that question provided within a few posts!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post

                      Unless he had other obligations. We can argue probabilities, but I think we can agree that hard facts are preferable.

                      I found this in the Eastern Daily Press. It shows that the match of Norfolk v. The Parsees actually began on August 6th. And for the record...Druitt wasn't playing on either side.

                      So much for Leighton's claim that Druitt was playing the Parsees 'a couple of days' after August 4th. He clearly wasn't.


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                      The EDP, ‘Ah ha!’

                      Nice find, R. J.

                      I’m sure we’re all aware that hard facts are preferable, but keep on reminding us so we don’t fall below the required standard.



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                      • #26
                        Gary - There's something I don't quite understand. I should know this, but I don't. What is the exact relationship between M.C.C. and M.C.C. and Ground?

                        The following schedule shows M.C.C. and Ground playing at Lords on August 6th, and also at Birmingham on August 6th (evidently the Second XI--but I haven't checked).

                        The one playing at Lords is the premier club, I assume, so who is the M.C.C. that is playing at Bournemouth the same day? A lesser incarnation of the same club?

                        Click image for larger version  Name:	M.C.C. and Ground.jpg Views:	0 Size:	105.7 KB ID:	589178

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post
                          Gary - There's something I don't quite understand. I should know this, but I don't. What is the exact relationship between M.C.C. and M.C.C. and Ground?

                          The following schedule shows M.C.C. and Ground playing at Lords on August 6th, and also at Birmingham on August 6th (evidently the Second XI--but I haven't checked).

                          The one playing at Lords is the premier club, I assume, so who is the M.C.C. that is playing at Bournemouth the same day? A lesser incarnation of the same club?

                          Click image for larger version Name:	M.C.C. and Ground.jpg Views:	0 Size:	105.7 KB ID:	589178
                          Yes, I believe it was a second team which included some ground staff. There was a reference to a groundsman’s performance in one of the match reports we’ve seen (or I’ve seen).

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                          • #28
                            https://www.britishnewspaperarchive....les/id/cricket
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                            • #29
                              I emailed the guy for the Cambridgeshire cricket website and he sent this. I don’t know if it helps in any way?

                              “I have not been able to trace a match between the Parsees and the Gents of Dorset. The Bournemouth Guardian of 11th August (page 2) said "The Parsees went to London on Saturday en route for Norwich." This presumably means that the Parsees left for London on Saturday 4th August and presumably did not play the Gents of Dorset. On the 10th and 11th August The Gents of Dorset and Bournemouth played each other as a home match for Dorset (Dean Park), Bournemouth winning. The scorecard is in the Bournemouth Guardian of the 18th August page 2. I could get you details of that match if you need it”
                              Regards

                              Michael🔎


                              " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

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