A Criminal Romance

[Howard Brown]

Back to the thread, if that's alright with everyone else....

Thank you.
Ostrog Appreciation Society,Inc.

[Tracy Ianson]

Uhoh- Maria have you ever heard the saying never shit in your own nest? well you just gone and done it trying to suck up to Rob

Tom was one of the few people to put up with you and even on occasion stuck up for you, now you publicly threaten him and put him down in front of everyone.

He is also quite correct this would have died down a lot sooner if you hadn't stirred the pot at every chance.

My advice Maria? do what everyone else is doing and let Tom and Rob sort it out themselves if they want to, they are both big enough to, and would probably appreciate you keeping quiet instead of trying to score points. (of course they are too much of gentlemen to say that, but I could never be called a lady so I have no such qualms)

Tracy

[Maria Birbili]

Your starting to sound like Phil Carter.

Honestly, that's what I thought too when I saw Tom's repeated “with respect“.
What's missing from this thread is that Phil C. gets pissed off and joins the operations. :-)

Hi Maria, no, I didn't read that post. I didn't read much of anything after I was informed that all my work amounts to is made up shit about a crap suspect for the sole purpose of making a name for myself. I think it's safe to say there's not a 'snide comment' I could make to Rob that would top that. In fact, I'd say he's outdone even AP Wolf (in the Philip H Casebook thread). I think I'll be processing this one a while.

Oh come on, Tom, it's obvious that Rob didn't mean all of this.
You guys are just a short step from making up. (Making out will be funnier though.)
What I felt real bad about was when Jonathan H. revealed the fact that he has eyesight only from one eye.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Jonathan,

I'm sure you're covered in his blanket statement, but I'm afraid I'm the main inspiration. Note the quote below from slightly earlier in this thread.

I must really terrify you Tom. Is it because I think Le Grand is a crap suspect? And that will damage sales of your upcoming fiction book about him?

Rob

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

I used the word fiction once, not constantly.

Folllowed by 'made up shit', which when in reference to a non-fiction work, amounts to exactly the same thing.

Your starting to sound like Phil Carter.

It must be the show tunes playing in the background.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Jonathan Hainsworth]

Relax, Tom

I think this guy is referring to me, you know, the Druitt Leper who makes up all this stuff based on a police chief who was there -- swine that I am.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Maria, no, I didn't read that post. I didn't read much of anything after I was informed that all my work amounts to is made up shit about a crap suspect for the sole purpose of making a name for myself. I think it's safe to say there's not a 'snide comment' I could make to Rob that would top that. In fact, I'd say he's outdone even AP Wolf (in the Philip H Casebook thread). I think I'll be processing this one a while.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Rob Clack]

With all due respect, and I do mean respect,

Your starting to sound like Phil Carter.

I do not even remotely appreciate you constantly referring to my work as 'fiction', 'crap', and now 'any old bollocks', 'made up shit', etc. Apparently, every Ripper journal past and present do not agree with you, nor the countless authors (including your co-author, Philip Hutchinson) who have referenced my work in their essays and talks. My name appears 8 times in the new A-Z (once misspelled). I say this not in bragging, but to point out that if I was in the habit of writing 'made up shit', I doubt any of this would have happened. You may not like my style or the things I choose to write about, but it's serious business to accuse me of 'making shit up'. Before you retort that it was a blanket comment and not directed at me personally, let me point out that, oh yes, it was. Also, I'm not sure I can think of a time in the last 20 years that Ripper books weren't being regularly announced and new theories discussed, so I don't see how it's suddenly reverting back to the dark ages, or why any of this seems new to you. You're a valuable and well-loved contributor to Ripperology, so I wouldn't want to see you disappear any more than any one else. But I must say that if my work or anyone else's upsets you to the point you're at, then there's something else frustrating you, and you need to deal with it, because the rest of us aren't going to stop writing just to please you.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I used the word fiction once, not constantly. Everything else was a blanket statement, if you want to take that personally than that's up to you.
And I don't expect anyone to stop writing just to please me.

Rob

[Maria Birbili]

Actually, I don't believe I did, not that it's any of your f****ng biznazz.

Now this is precisely what I don't mind you saying to me. Which illustrates perfectly that I'm very accommodating.

Regarding your 'not empty' threat, I don't think Howard takes too kindly to such thing on his forums.

Oh, I don't think How would mind my pinching your nose a bit, esp. since I'm keen in researching Le Grand and I truly believe in your book.
And did you see my post #46?

[Tom_Wescott]

Come on, Tom, you started the animosity.

Actually, I don't believe I did, not that it's any of your f****ng biznazz.

And that joke was really not funny, though the reference was based on an old incident/misunderstanding.

It referenced no such thing. For many years I've used a satirical form of humor that simultaneously references elements of the Ripper case and current people/events, lampooning both at the same time. It was no more an attack on Jonathan Hainsworth than it was Rob, and there was nothing remotely insulting let alone 'attacking' in my post. Stop making trouble, Maria.

Regarding your 'not empty' threat, I don't think Howard takes too kindly to such thing on his forums.

You might have thought it was funny, I didn't. I just added it to the list of snide comments you've been making towards me lately.

By recently you mean months ago? And didn't those comments go both ways? That happens on message boards sometimes, Rob.

I don't plan to publicly pan your book, I don't plan on posting in the future. Ripperology seems to be going back to the dark ages lately with to many people thinking they are gods gift to ripperology, writing any old bollocks and making up shit just to try and make a name for themselves and not sticking to plain and clear facts.
I've got better things to do with my life.

With all due respect, and I do mean respect, I do not even remotely appreciate you constantly referring to my work as 'fiction', 'crap', and now 'any old bollocks', 'made up shit', etc. Apparently, every Ripper journal past and present do not agree with you, nor the countless authors (including your co-author, Philip Hutchinson) who have referenced my work in their essays and talks. My name appears 8 times in the new A-Z (once misspelled). I say this not in bragging, but to point out that if I was in the habit of writing 'made up shit', I doubt any of this would have happened. You may not like my style or the things I choose to write about, but it's serious business to accuse me of 'making shit up'. Before you retort that it was a blanket comment and not directed at me personally, let me point out that, oh yes, it was. Also, I'm not sure I can think of a time in the last 20 years that Ripper books weren't being regularly announced and new theories discussed, so I don't see how it's suddenly reverting back to the dark ages, or why any of this seems new to you. You're a valuable and well-loved contributor to Ripperology, so I wouldn't want to see you disappear any more than any one else. But I must say that if my work or anyone else's upsets you to the point you're at, then there's something else frustrating you, and you need to deal with it, because the rest of us aren't going to stop writing just to please you.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Maria Birbili]

I don't plan on posting in the future. Ripperology seems to be going back to the dark ages lately with to many people thinking they are gods gift to ripperology, writing any old bollocks and making up shit just to try and make a name for themselves and not sticking to plain and clear facts. I've got better things to do with my life.

Rob, please don't stop posting – if you have anything to correct or new information to give. We really need your expertise on the boards.

Tom most certainly doesn't think he's god's gift to Ripperology, he's been researching the case for decades and his suspicions on Le Grand grew naturally, after having researched Le Grand's very suspicious activities on Berner Street. He made a name for himself (as you have, and as I have, in my own field of study) by simple valour, not by forcing it. At any rate, trying to make a name for onesself without substance doesn't work.

[Rob Clack]

I just noticed these replies. Why all the animosity, Rob? My 'Buckshot' post was clearly a joke, and I thought a funny one. I wasn't aware we were supposed to be fighting here. You're welcome to your thoughts about Le Grand. I don't expect to win over any of the 'minimalists' on these boards, including yourself, but then you're not who I write for. In this and other posts you seem to be saying you already plan to publicly pan my book before it's even written or published, which I admit is probably surprising to many people who think of you as being humble or dignified. There's certainly nothing humble in your statement that your opinion alone would kill sales of a book, or at least that I should expect it to. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you thought I was somehow attacking you in my previous posts on this thread. You seem to be taking our disagreement about suspects and whatnot and making it personal, which is strange and unfortunate.

You might have thought it was funny, I didn't. I just added it to the list of snide comments you've been making towards me lately.

I don't plan to publicly pan your book, I don't plan on posting in the future. Ripperology seems to be going back to the dark ages lately with to many people thinking they are gods gift to ripperology, writing any old bollocks and making up shit just to try and make a name for themselves and not sticking to plain and clear facts.
I've got better things to do with my life.

Rob

[Maria Birbili]

Come on, Tom, you started the animosity. And that joke was really not funny, though the reference was based on an old incident/misunderstanding.

Maria,
Don't ever threaten me again, even in jest. {...} As to your e-mails, I thought I had replied to them.

It was not an empty threat, but it was just your nose, and I've done worse. And you'd notice that I'm extremely accommodating when we disagree with each other and you can say anything you want to me, but somehow I'm sensitive to people attacking Rob.
Yes, by now you've replied to the emails.

[Tom_Wescott]

I must really terrify you Tom. Is it because I think Le Grand is a crap suspect? And that will damage sales of your upcoming fiction book about him?

Tom, do you mind leaving Rob alone, unless you want me to make your nose look like Eddowes'? What the hell's gotten into you? You're getting as batty as a shithouse rat.
Just yesterday I gave you all my research results from Paris AND my (precious ;-)) ideas about Berner Street, and I'll be giving you the rest too. I'm not as naive as to expect a “thank you“, but can't you at least godamn chill? Unbelievable.

I just noticed these replies. Why all the animosity, Rob? My 'Buckshot' post was clearly a joke, and I thought a funny one. I wasn't aware we were supposed to be fighting here. You're welcome to your thoughts about Le Grand. I don't expect to win over any of the 'minimalists' on these boards, including yourself, but then you're not who I write for. In this and other posts you seem to be saying you already plan to publicly pan my book before it's even written or published, which I admit is probably surprising to many people who think of you as being humble or dignified. There's certainly nothing humble in your statement that your opinion alone would kill sales of a book, or at least that I should expect it to. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you thought I was somehow attacking you in my previous posts on this thread. You seem to be taking our disagreement about suspects and whatnot and making it personal, which is strange and unfortunate.

Maria,

Don't ever threaten me again, even in jest. And no, I'm not going to leave Rob 'alone'. We're on a message board, where people reply to one another. I thought things had cooled out between Rob and myself and that I could joke with him, though clearly that was premature. As to your e-mails, I thought I had replied to them.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Maria Birbili]

And we need to answer why he was considered a dangerous man and those weren't Macnaghten's words.

Absolutely, that's why I'm insisting so much about the Banstead letter and if S. might not have some notes or files stucked somewhere.
(Please note I said “stucked somewhere“, not “stucked up somewhere“. )

Someone else who likes to put words in my mouth! {...} Probably easier if I stopped posting and then people can't make things up as they go along about what I am suppose to have said.

Hopefully this doesn't refer to me. :-) Please don't ever stop posting, Rob, what would Ripperology be without you? If you left, not only would we all miss you terribly, but can you imagine what free for all stuff would be put in your mouth? (I mean, claimed about you, I gotta stop with the sexual images.)

Tom, do you mind leaving Rob alone, unless you want me to make your nose look like Eddowes'? What the hell's gotten into you? You're getting as batty as a shithouse rat.
Just yesterday I gave you all my research results from Paris AND my (precious ;-)) ideas about Berner Street, and I'll be giving you the rest too. I'm not as naive as to expect a “thank you“, but can't you at least godamn chill? Unbelievable.