John Kirby

[Harry Poland]

Here's a chap who might be worth a better look than my limited research skills can manage.

http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/brows...-353#highlight

Reading between the lines he clearly took a prostitute to a lodging house and then stabbed her in the stomach saying "I wish I had killed her; that is how a good many more b—y cows ought to be served"

A brief look at who he may have been in ancestry suggests the following biography:

Born: 1852 in Ratclif to Timothy and Mary Ann Kirby (nee Horan)
Residence: 1861 with parents in Stepney
Residence: 1871 With Grandmother (Joanna Horan) in Stepney

Questions:


What became of his family between 1861 & 1871
Where was he from 1881 onwards?
Is this the same John Kirby who was admitted to Hanwell Lunatic Asylum on 26 June 1891 (Jno Kirby)?
Was the Mary Ann Kirby admitted to Carlisle asylum on the same day pure coincidence (probably) or a relative (unlikely but John's mother and sister were both called Mary Ann)

[Howard Brown]

Good one, Harry !
I see Montagu Williams was the prosecutor...
He received 7 years ( in 1872 ) when he was 19....meaning he'd have been 36 at the time of the Whitechapel Murders.

Worth looking into, thats for sure.

[Harry Poland]

Cheers Howard

I'm off for another week, so spouse permitting, I'll do some digging

[Howard Brown]

Here's a reference to the crime :
Crew's death occurred on March 10th, a Sunday.

Daily News
March 16, 1872
*************

[Harry Poland]

That's a great find Howard. Kind of confirms the suspicions regarding the victim. Of course the lodging house owner in her testimony claimed that she was Kirby's common law wife. Also you've now found the prison where he was sent :-)

[Howard Brown]

Here's a question for you, Har.

The crime was committed in Mile End.
Yet it says here that it was committed in Limehouse.
Any thoughts ?

Pall Mall Gazette
March 16, 1872
************

[Howard Brown]

Just picked up on your comment about the lodging house keeper claiming Kirby & Crew were 'common lawing' it.
Thats some CYA in action.

With a remark like that about the 'bloody cows'...its difficult to understand how he didn't receive more than that much time.
Of course, beating women into a pulp would sometimes find the perp recieving 1 month....but this fellow Kirby, at least to me, was really over the top...

[Howard Brown]

The Times
March 16, 1872
************

[Harry Poland]

Here's a question for you, Har.

The crime was committed in Mile End.
Yet it says here that it was committed in Limehouse.
Any thoughts ?

The attack took place at 2 York Row or Road, Ratcliff which is pretty close to Limehouse.

Caroline Crew died in the "London Hospital" which, I think is what is now Barts on Mile End Road

The death was actually registerd in Whitechapel.

[Howard Brown]

Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper
March 17, 1872
************

[Howard Brown]

In the March 18th edition of the Leeds Mercury...the newspaper reported that Crew did not state who attacked her when asked.

[Harry Poland]

Superb stuff Howard.

I now know I'm looking at the right man in Ancestry as his address on 1871 census is the same. We've now got his employer and his employment

[Howard Brown]

Harry:
It must have been a peace, love and dove month for the magistrates.
Here's an article about some fellow who attacked a constable with a knife and received no jail time.

Illustrated Police News
March 23, 1872
************



Anyway.....this was in that issue of the IPN.

This is another facet of this murder which reminds me a lot of Emma Smith's demise...that she didn't die right away.
Having been attacked on a Sunday....she finally succumbed on a Thursday. 4 days and yet she didn't roll over on the perp.

Illustrated Police News
March 23, 1872
************

[Howard Brown]

Penny Illustrated Paper
April 12, 1872
************

[Harry Poland]

After his period of incarceration John seems to vanish. I've found (probably) his sister, Ellen working at the Mitre Tavern, next to mitre square in 1881