Rubenhold Sez :

[Gary Barnett]

As it happens Gary, no it wasn't...but I found it a very "dry as dust" book, for the most part listing all the genealogical research...if you're turned on by that process for it's own sake, I suppose it's interesting...but despite being warned, (and as usual taking no notice!) I think I was hoping for more...

Neal Shelden's little book was far warmer, paricularly in it's treatment of the women and their descendants, and I do regret the huge prices now being charged (cheapest I've seen of late was Loretta Lay's £40 - but I've seen well over the hundred being asked) may deter newer students from buying it...

Dave

Sounds right up my street.

I’ve got a copy of Shelden’s book. It has a white cover and is little more than a pamphlet to be honest. I bought it dirt cheap online and it came with photocopies of the death certs of the 5. I think there may be an updated version?

I have to admit that I have borrowed my copy of The Five back from my granddaughter, who shows no sign of being interested in the case or her family history. The book is an excellent introduction to the lives of the women, but needs to be handled with caution.

Compared to a recent book I purchased about Martha Tabram, The Five is an excellent read. The Tabram book is the worst-written book I have ever read. But it’s given me some confidence that I might be able to knock out something on Alice that might be a little better.

[Gary Barnett]

Is Hallie following our discussions?

45AE0613-A999-4BA6-81C5-C6FE85EE6561.jpeg

I’m not sure where the witch accusation comes from - any ideas?

[Cogidubnus]

Was it rubbish, Dave?

As it happens Gary, no it wasn't...but I found it a very "dry as dust" book, for the most part listing all the genealogical research...if you're turned on by that process for it's own sake, I suppose it's interesting...but despite being warned, (and as usual taking no notice!) I think I was hoping for more...

Neal Shelden's little book was far warmer, paricularly in it's treatment of the women and their descendants, and I do regret the huge prices now being charged (cheapest I've seen of late was Loretta Lay's £40 - but I've seen well over the hundred being asked) may deter newer students from buying it...

Dave

[Gary Barnett]

It broke mine when I paid full price for it, back in 2013

Was it rubbish, Dave?

Even if it was, assuming HR actually read all the books etc she cites, then she has been deliberately misleading us all.

[Gary Barnett]

That doesn't count as a book, because it wasn't heartbreaking.

Rubenhold cites it in her bibliography under the heading Secondary Sources/Books.

[Cogidubnus]

That doesn't count as a book, because it wasn't heartbreaking.

It broke mine when I paid full price for it, back in 2013

[Robert Linford]

That doesn't count as a book, because it wasn't heartbreaking.

[Gary Barnett]

Rubenhold Sez she was the first to have published a full-length book on the five.

What about this?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ripper-Bloo.../dp/095682479X

I’ve no idea how good it is, but it was published six years before The Five .

[Adam Went]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, once again I would encourage anyone who hasn't done so, to read Henry Mayhew's social studies from the Victorian era. Most of it was done a generation or so before JTR's time, but there's no better insight into what life was like back then for a number of different individuals and families with many different dynamics. Suffice to say, just because the family was together with a capable man as the head of the family, didn't mean they were safe from the workhouse either. Likewise, just because women were left on their own, didn't necessarily mean that they didn't have ways and means for better supporting themselves. Much of it came down to their family situations and whether or not they had an adequate support network. Much has changed in the way of gender equality since then, and that's a great thing - but family dynamics and support networks, or lack of, still make or break individuals to this day.

I can't speak for everybody else but I certainly don't think any differently of JTR's victims for doing what they had to do in order to survive, I don't understand why there's this sudden belated stigma about it all.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Gary Barnett]

How does the Sprinkler fit in?

Maybe when the audience grows restless and starts to throw rotten fruit, the Sprinkler comes on and Ms Rubenhold makes her escape. . .

Perhaps the sprinkler was what saved Polly Nichol’s birthplace from the Great Fire of London.

https://www.jtrforums.com/showthread...ight=gunpowder

[Chris G.]

Rubenhold sez: The Five belonged to the Ripper.

How does the Sprinkler fit in?

Maybe when the audience grows restless and starts to throw rotten fruit, the Sprinkler comes on and Ms Rubenhold makes her escape. . .

[Anna Morris]

Rubenhold sez:

Louis Boekee probably owned a portfolio of houses used as brothels. She is surprised at this since he was merely a labourer.

I can’t see how she extrapolates a portfolio of brothels from some connection (probably a tenancy) to 79, Pennington Street before the probable brothel-keeper John Miller moved in.

And far from being a labourer, he is recorded as being a gas fitter, and we don’t know whether he was an employee or an employer.

Clearly, on planet HR anyone who isn’t an academic, a professional or doesn’t work in meedja is a ‘labourer’ and obviously not in a financial position to rent a run-down hovel down by the docks.

She also tells us that Elizabeth Boekee took control of her husband’s brothel empire after his death. She and Johannes Morgenstern moved into 79, Pennington Street on the floor above the Millers.

But we know that the Millers moved out of the house around the time Mrs B moved back in.

So much for her impeccable research.

That is a lot worse than anything actual Ripperologists have suggested. I think the book in question was written for a fast buck...(uh, dollar....uh, pound....uh, Euro...) and sales were pushed with, IMO, fake feministic outrage.

[Howard Brown]

Gary:

Maybe having children, she'd have instantly picked up on the support system Bob ( and over here, Nina) mentioned.

[Gary Barnett]

Rubenhold sez: The Five belonged to the Ripper.

86A04D55-51BB-4072-AD4A-56D2783A739C.jpeg

[Gary Barnett]

Rubenhold sez:

Louis Boekee probably owned a portfolio of houses used as brothels. She is surprised at this since he was merely a labourer.

I can’t see how she extrapolates a portfolio of brothels from some connection (probably a tenancy) to 79, Pennington Street before the probable brothel-keeper John Miller moved in.

And far from being a labourer, he is recorded as being a gas fitter, and we don’t know whether he was an employee or an employer.

Clearly, on planet HR anyone who isn’t an academic, a professional or doesn’t work in meedja is a ‘labourer’ and obviously not in a financial position to rent a run-down hovel down by the docks.

She also tells us that Elizabeth Boekee took control of her husband’s brothel empire after his death. She and Johannes Morgenstern moved into 79, Pennington Street on the floor above the Millers.

But we know that the Millers moved out of the house around the time Mrs B moved back in.

So much for her impeccable research.