The Real Mary Kelly - Wynne Weston-Davies

[Gary Barnett]

I only mentioned Harry Hohbein in passing on another thread because initially he caught my eye when I thought he was 27 on the 1891 and he was working as a baker on the road where EWD allegedly committed adultery with the Harry McBain cited in the divorce who was said to be a baker.
When I looked closer and saw he was 21 it kind of knocked that on the head for me but Robert doesn't seem phased by the young age of him and he may well have looked older as Robert said.
Need he have been able to afford a high class prostitute, has it really been established EWD was a high class prostitute at all? The Holloway dives mentioned in the divorce don't suggest that.


WWD opted for the timber merchant because apparently the timber merchant's daughter may have worked with Robert John Maundrell (father of Ellen) at the post office and he lived near a bakery. I don't see how that would link Harry McBain to EWD anyway as there has been no link established between EWD and Ellen McLeod and the Maundrell's for me.

Hi Debra,

When I said 'high class' I was thinking of a woman somewhat more expensive than a Spitalfields street walker. And if she conducted her business in hotels, however down at heel, the cost would surely have been prohibitive for a 15 year old baker's boy.

(Perhaps Robert got more pocket money than most of us.;-))

I suppose it's the nature of suspect books that if the author is short of facts to bridge a gap in his narrative, he naturally reaches for the possibility that best suits his theory.

A great example in this book is WWD telling us that little is known about FSC and then in the next breath telling us unequivocally that he had no friends.

Gary.

[Robert Linford]

Hi Gary

Well, I don't know. There are objections whichever way.

Could Hohbein have found the bread? Maybe he paid partly in kind. A few buns, some crusty rolls, maybe the odd cream cake.

I did find a whole family of baker Holbeins, but I am assuming that he would not have been in Caledonia Rd if he was a family member.

[Gary Barnett]

Hi Gary

Well, I don't know. There are objections whichever way.

Could Hohbein have found the bread? Maybe he paid partly in kind. A few buns, some crusty rolls, maybe the odd cream cake.

I did find a whole family of baker Holbeins, but I am assuming that he would not have been in Caledonia Rd if he was a family member.

Now if his name had been Ernie...

[Robert Linford]

You mean, if his name had been Ted. And, since he was German, he would have been Teuton Ted from Teddington.

[Robert Linford]

I wonder if a local rates collector might have been an ideal person to spy on EWD for information for the divorce petition?

Same here, Debs, but as I recall, when I looked I couldn't be certain that Warren was doing that job at the relevant time. I don't think he was in 1881.

[Gary Barnett]

You mean, if his name had been Ted. And, since he was German, he would have been Teuton Ted from Teddington.

Of course I do. Duh. It was Ted's macaroons that made her swoon.

[SGerrard]

It says in the book that a witness at Craig's wedding was his friend Edward Warren, a local rates collector. I seem to recall in the inquest reporting that one of Craig's friends who gave evidence said he had helped Craig look for Elizabeth. I forget who that was but I wonder if a local rates collector might have been an ideal person to spy on EWD for information for the divorce petition?

There's a Charlotte Warren on the electoral register for 53 Tonbridge Street in 1889, I think - probably a coincidence.

[Debra Arif]

Hi Debra,

When I said 'high class' I was thinking of a woman somewhat more expensive than a Spitalfields street walker. And if she conducted her business in hotels, however down at heel, the cost would surely have been prohibitive for a 15 year old baker's boy.

(Perhaps Robert got more pocket money than most of us.;-))

I suppose it's the nature of suspect books that if the author is short of facts to bridge a gap in his narrative, he naturally reaches for the possibility that best suits his theory.

A great example in this book is WWD telling us that little is known about FSC and then in the next breath telling us unequivocally that he had no friends.

Gary.

Hi Gary
Whoever Harry was, it seems more like an affair conducted in seedy private hotels when he was named as co-respondent. I suppose I didn't expect that a client would be named in a divorce petition.

[Debra Arif]

I wonder if a local rates collector might have been an ideal person to spy on EWD for information for the divorce petition?

Same here, Debs, but as I recall, when I looked I couldn't be certain that Warren was doing that job at the relevant time. I don't think he was in 1881.

Thanks Robert and Sally. I guess at a push Warren might have remembered that a Mrs McLeod owned rooms or apartments that Craig had been told, or seen, Elizabeth entering with men.

[Robert Linford]

Yes I think it's possible, Debs. Warren may even have put Craig in touch with an inquiry agent - I dare say councils used such people even in those days.

[Edward Stow]

Warren - the incompetent inquiry agent of North London.

The book is written as if the details of the lives of the people made main characters are a known. From small pieces of information comes definitive assertion identifying people with the main characters mentioned in the affidavit, their lives and tastes being set out as if known. The case is built with layer upon layer of this type of extremely tenuous extrapolation.

[Sam Flynn]

The book is written as if the details of the lives of the people made main characters are a known. From small pieces of information comes definitive assertion...

I have to agree, Ed. Throughout the book, I found it hard to know whether I was dealing with biographical facts or speculation. Time and again, I felt it was mostly the latter.

[Debra Arif]

I agree, also. This book should be marketed as fiction.

[Edward Stow]

Harsh but true... but will anyone say this to the affable WWD when he attends the conference tomorrow...

[Lynn Cates]

no go

Hello Debs. I appreciate that remark.

I have held off buying the book, awaiting your assessment. Looks like a no go?

Cheers.
LC