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The Real Mary Kelly - Wynne Weston-Davies

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  • Originally posted by Stephen Collyer View Post
    I was going to buy the book, but to be honest the more I hear the less I'm inclined to. If there was ever a case to wait for a heavily revised 2nd edition then I think this may be it.
    Reading about the EWD timeline, the author has a very decent case for DNA testing the Kelly remains, but judging from the discussions on here & elsewhere I can't help thinking his publishers twisted his arm to make the unjustified leap of faith with regards to Francis Craig being JTR.
    Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
    The Craig aspect was central to WWD's interest - and cental to the Elizabeth becoming Mary yarn.
    WWD said it was only after he noticed the Mile End Road address given by Craig that his story formed.
    And so history gets written and published. Hmmm.
    Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
    https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

    Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
    Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

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    • Wynne emailed me and told me that he was going to make an effort to appear on the Forums today...
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      • Meanwhile, over on casebook, Pat has made an excellent find and located Henry McBain, baker:

        http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.p...&postcount=122

        Pat didn't post the census entry she mentions but she says Henry was living in a lodging house in Campbell Rd., Upper Holloway.
        Perhaps this is the address Craig gave as Campbell Street in the divorce papers? Was Mrs McLeod a lodging house owner or keeper?

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        • Here he is - that was good work finding him.

          47 Campbell Road, North Islington. An all male lodging house.

          The Lodging House Keeper was Henry Hamp with his wife and son in 1891.

          Click image for larger version

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          • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
            Here he is - that was good work finding him.

            47 Campbell Road, North Islington. An all male lodging house.

            The Lodging House Keeper was Henry Hamp with his wife and son in 1891.

            [ATTACH]14714[/ATTACH]
            I think the same building was listed as 44a in 1881. It's right after 45 and there is no 47 but there is a male lodging house there, no keeper is listed in 81.

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            • To change the subject is there any source for the claim Craig was a 'penny a line' hack? It seems most unlikely to me - particularly if he did attend the inquests and sat on the front bench, and particularly if he write the longer prosaic articles in the ELA. I would suggest that by 1888 'pennya line' was more an expression than an accurate rate of pay.

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              • To change the subject back, did the affidavit mention a specific address in Campbell Road - I can't remember.

                The lodging house registers at the LMA will show who owned this place.

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                • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
                  To change the subject back, did the affidavit mention a specific address in Campbell Road - I can't remember.

                  The lodging house registers at the LMA will show who owned this place.
                  No, no specific address Ed. I think in fact it was referred to as Campbell Street in the affidavit although I should think it probably was Campbell Road that was meant.

                  The whole 'houses of Mrs. McLeod' thing looks a bit vague in terms of detail.

                  Good news about the baker.

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                  • A number of rooming houses were actually owned by absentee landlords. Could Mrs. McLeod have been like one of our modern slum lords who owns property but does no more than collect rents? If so, did she inherit the properties or buy them? Did her husband own them and put them in her name? Is there a way to research sales of property back in those days? Who sold to who?Who was on the electoral records at the addresses before Mrs. McLeod.

                    Jack London's idea of the abyss is about the huge, poor population spreading out and engulfing neighborhoods that were once respectable. Even by 1888 this was a somewhat recent phenomenon so it seems it might be somewhat easy to search property histories.

                    (I have very much wanted to do a search like that here in the states concerning a historic murder, but think I have to go to the city/county and look at the records there.)
                    The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                    • Vast swathes of London were owned by absentee landlords. If brothels were run on their premises - as they sometimes were - they were not liable, nor could they be treated or regarded as brothel keepers.

                      Mrs MacLeod as an absentee landlord does not gel with Mrs MacLeod the front of house brothel keeper mentioned in the affidavit nor with the Frenchified Knightsbridge madam that Kelly had dealings with.

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                      • Edward: I agree with you. Obviously the book isn't available to me but what I gather from other comments Mrs. McLeod sounds more like an absentee landlord. There could be something to learn from how she acquired her properties perhaps but I don't think she was running any brothels.

                        One little thought though, could she be connected to any properties the Morgensterns & extended families may have used as brothels?
                        The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                        • No sign of WWD on here yet. He's posting interesting stuff over on the other site:

                          "I think a big mistake of present day Ripperologists is to view people like MJK, Joe Barnett and many others as normal, middle class, intelligent human beings in control of their own destinies."

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                          • I'm not sure anyone sees them as middle class people in charge of their own destinies. If anything that is what WWD does with Craig and Elizabeth - and the MacLeods and MacBlain!

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                            • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
                              I'm not sure anyone sees them as middle class people in charge of their own destinies. If anything that is what WWD does with Craig and Elizabeth - and the MacLeods and MacBlain!
                              And how would you rate their 'normality' in comparison to middle class FSC, the socially inept tongue-tied serial killer?

                              He was obviously intelligent, though, writing penny-a-line stuff for the ELA. I bet his old man swelled with pride as he told William Morris his boy was an East End hack.

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                              • Lots of people don't realize ( Most of us here do, I'm sure ) that women turned to drink in order to sell their bodies, not that they were alcoholics to begin with who just decided to turn tricks.... which is the opposite of what a lot of folks think...women who once drank socially now were alcoholics on top of prostituting themselves. Double whammy.

                                Back then, a number of people also believed the unfortunate class suffered from nymphomania.
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