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  • No problem, Gary.
    To Join JTR Forums :
    Contact [email protected]

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    • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
      Trev,

      Perhaps you can give us a masterclass in how to put the troll in his place. You tell us you have done, but haven?t provided any detail. Where was his Tumblety research at fault? Did he admit his errors? How big were they?

      So, what?s the truth about Orsam?s Tumblety clangers? You have a responsibility to the community to set the record straight.

      These were fully documented and discussed in open forums at the time and I do not intend to go over what was a lengthy debate with him on who was right and who was wrong.


      I have nothing more to say on this thread


      www.trevormarriott.co.uk

      Comment


      • One for Trevor to bookmark.

        David describes my suggestion that a ‘one-off’ horse might be an immature horse as ‘madness’.


        “Firstly, it’s not true that the term ‘one-off’ was ever used in equestrian circles to describe ‘an immature horse’. It was simply a term used to age a horse. The word ‘immature’ doesn’t come into it. It's just something that the Clanger has fabricated. Any horse up to four years old can be described as ‘immature’ because that’s what a filly is by definition: a young horse. But you can have a ‘one off filly’, ‘two-off filly’ or ‘three-off filly’. They are all just young horses!?


        Yes, David, all young ‘uns, but at different stages of physical and mental development. Read on:



        Behaviors and training of the two to four year old horse

        Most horses at around age two are beginning to learn how to hold a bit and carry a saddle, although actual riding is usually put off until the horse is around 3 or 4 years old.

        Early training

        Light training normally begins at the age of two. While not yet physically mature, most experts agree that the two year old benefits both physically and mentally from training at this age.

        A two year old's joints are still maturing and are susceptible to overwork. Joints throughout the limbs mature at different rates. While the legs may be strong and mature, the hips and back may not. Although many thoroughbreds race as two year olds, other breeds take longer to mature and gain full strength.
        At age two, most horses begin to mature sexually and young stallions may become aggressive. Most mares are sexually mature between their first and third year depending on the environment.

        Mares and stallions should have outstanding qualities and should prove their worth before being considered for breeding stock. Only horses with outstanding conformation, performance and temperament should be considered as breeding stock. Allowing a horse to breed simply to have a foal is a questionable practice and results in a supply of unwanted horses.

        A properly trained two year old will have excellent ground manners and will have learned to be cooperative when loading into a trailer. A two year old can be lunged, round penned, driven hitched to a light vehicle and ridden at the owner's discretion.

        Between the ages of two and five, the young horse will continue to become stronger and more mature both mentally and physically, and will be able to carry more weight and develop skills related to the horse's work whether competitive or as a pleasure and farm horse.

        This is the horse's peak learning phase and the bulk of the horse's training usually takes place between ages 3 and 6. The human equivalent to this age group is the late teens to early 20’s. The horse is now ready to begin taking on serious work and is now capable of becoming a great companion.


        https://equimed.com/health-centers/b...to-aged-equine

        Clearly the physical and mental development or ‘maturity’ of a horse would have been of great interest to someone wanting to purchase one with a particular purpose in mind. A ‘one off’ horse would have been the least mature or, to put it another way, the most immature.

        Phew! I’m not mad after all.

        Not surprisingly, David hasn’t explained why he didn’t touch on the equestrian usage in his ‘one-off’ magnum opus. Let’s give him the benefit of the doubt and suggest that he missed it (oh dear, what a clanger!)

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
          David describes my suggestion that a ?one-off? horse might be an immature horse as ?madness?.

          Please can you quote and source what David says?


          Thanks.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post
            Please can you quote and source what David says?


            Thanks.

            I was going to answer ‘No!’ because wading through Orsams ordure is only manageable in small doses. You could just Google Orsam/Madness/Immature...

            But I like to be helpful, so here’s a link. If you scroll down past A REAL LIFE BUMBLING BUFFOON, A REAL LIFE BUMBLING BUFFOONESS, BATSHIT CRAZY and HORSESHIT CRAZY, you’ll arrive at MORE HORSEY MADNESS, which is where the quote (the bit in quotation marks) above comes from.

            You’ll know if you’ve overshot it if you arrive at this:


            Click image for larger version

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            https://www.orsam.co.uk/news.htm

            Comment


            • Gary


              Sorry, I can't see it on the page you link to.

              Comment


              • My considered response to the image below:

                Click image for larger version

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                The Rabid Carrot says, ‘You’re all mad. I’m the only sane root vegetable in the field’.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post
                  Gary


                  Sorry, I can't see it on the page you link to.
                  Apologies, Chris. I must have had more than one Orsam tab open.


                  https://www.orsam.co.uk/loss11.htm

                  Comment


                  • it’s not true that the term ‘one-off’ was ever used in equestrian circles to describe ‘an immature horse’.

                    How can he know that? He’s not saying ‘I don’t believe that...’ he saying unequivocally it’s not true...’

                    The only thing I can think of is that in his mind it is so unlikely that people who advertised horses as x-off were trying to convey information about the animals physical and mental maturity/development to potential purchases that its not even worth considering.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                      Apologies, Chris. I must have had more than one Orsam tab open.


                      https://www.orsam.co.uk/loss11.htm

                      I think he's describing the totality of the argument as mad, not just the bit about "one-off horse" meaning "immature horse".

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post
                        I think he's describing the totality of the argument as mad, not just the bit about "one-off horse" meaning "immature horse".
                        You’re splitting hairs here, Chris. Perhaps it’s everything else that’s insane, and my ‘fabrication?’ that x-off has something to do with maturity is perfectly sane?

                        I seem to recall (Kattrup will probably remember) that the x-off of a horse could be assessed by its dental development.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                          You?re splitting hairs here, Chris.

                          Not at all. The reason I asked was that I couldn't believe David had said what you claimed. And indeed he didn't.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post
                            Not at all. The reason I asked was that I couldn't believe David had said what you claimed. And indeed he didn't.
                            That’s interesting, Chris. Since you’ve presumably read the rest of the article (I think there are 3 in total) and you seem to be of the view that Orsam would not express an unreasonable opinion, does that mean that you think madness, bonkers and horseshit crazy are valid?

                            Comment


                            • Hi Gary,

                              Did you ever send me that PM?

                              Simon

                              Comment


                              • Gary


                                Sorry, but I really am almightily fed up with all the personal stuff. And Howard has already asked us to avoid it. I just wanted to clarify whether David said what you claimed, that's all.

                                Comment

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