Lord Orsam's Blog

[Chris Phillips]

Indeed. I suppose one of the questions there is what impact the nature of her injuries might have had on her body temperature. I wonder if David discusses any cases involving disembowelment.

Well, probably we should wait for the book, but while I'm sure you're right that disembowelment would have been an important source of uncertainty in the estimation of Chapman's time of death from temperature, it would have been only one of several, and from my reading a while ago I think there are more fundamental reasons why the margin of error for Phillips's estimate would have been very wide.

[Gary Barnett]

Thanks. Of course the same question about the estimation of time of death is very relevant to Dr Phillips's opinion about Annie Chapman's time of death.

Indeed. I suppose one of the questions there is what impact the nature of her injuries might have had on her body temperature. I wonder if David discusses any cases involving disembowelment.

[Chris Phillips]

Your guess was a good one:

Thanks. Of course the same question about the estimation of time of death is very relevant to Dr Phillips's opinion about Annie Chapman's time of death.

[Gary Barnett]

Thanks for passing on the news. The updates are linked from here.

I am intrigued by the new book, having enjoyed David Barrat's two previous true crime books. I am guessing it will deal with the question of time of death (as estimated from body temperature), though of course I may be wrong.

Your guess was a good one:

[Chris Phillips]

UPDATED ORSAM BLOG 29TH May 2023


Just in case people missed it, Lord Orsam had several updates on Monday and a new book annouchment.

Thanks for passing on the news. The updates are linked from here.

I am intrigued by the new book, having enjoyed David Barrat's two previous true crime books. I am guessing it will deal with the question of time of death (as estimated from body temperature), though of course I may be wrong.

[Gary Barnett]

Currently available - Lord Orsam

Currently unavailable - Amazon

Blimey, it must have sold out in a millisecond.

It sounds fascinating, though.

A book that every serious student of true crime should have on their shelf.

Mr Albert Clanger NE Essex

(I accept, cash, cheques and crates of fine wine.)

[Steve Blomer]

UPDATED ORSAM BLOG 29TH May 2023


Just in case people missed it, Lord Orsam had several updates on Monday and a new book annouchment.

[Michael Banks]

The white flag is a rare sight in Ripperology, Michael. Sorry for bringing it up, but I thought your line of reasoning was somewhat unusual coming from a Druitt theorist, but maybe you've abandoned the drowned barrister?

One odd thing about the Druitt theory is that Macnaghten's view of the case seems to have won out. Sir Basil Thomson and Sir John Fitzgerald Moylan would later repeat it as if it was the understood answer at the Yard. We don't see anything like that with Anderson's theory.

I don’t know why the point didn’t register at the time Roger. At least you were on the ball (as ever)

The Druitt theory certainly seems to have had more staying power than any suggestion of Kosminski being the ripper but that doesn’t prove anything of course. For 35 years I’ve seen nothing that dissuades me that Druitt is a suspect worthy of consideration although the very suggestion does appear to bother some. Maybe there’s more info still out there somewhere?

[R. J. Palmer]

I have to wave the white flag on that point Roger.

The white flag is a rare sight in Ripperology, Michael. Sorry for bringing it up, but I thought your line of reasoning was somewhat unusual coming from a Druitt theorist, but maybe you've abandoned the drowned barrister?

One odd thing about the Druitt theory is that Macnaghten's view of the case seems to have won out. Sir Basil Thomson and Sir John Fitzgerald Moylan would later repeat it as if it was the understood answer at the Yard. We don't see anything like that with Anderson's theory.

[Michael Banks]

Orsam's point about Griffiths also undermines the argument that Herlock Sholmes and others were recently making over on Casebook.org. in support of the Kosminski theory. I was thinking the same thing. Herlock argued that the draft of the Memo could be rejected as ''worthless' and thrown into the rubbish bin because Macnaghten had obviously changed his mind while redrafting it, but this was a non sequitur. Macnaghen clearly leaked the draft version to Griffiths a few years later who opined Kosminski and Ostrog were 'weak' suspects, and this is very likely to have represented Macnaghten's continuing and unchanged views. He didn't change his mind and perhaps 'Orsam' is right--that Anderson changed his mind for him. I'm still studying his arguments, though. An interesting piece.

I have to wave the white flag on that point Roger.

[Debra Arif]

And this is from the cases in asylums register, the same one Thomas Donoghue appears in:


It's clearly David in this one too.
The reason I posted initially was because I thought that the name in the settlement record looked more like Davis than David and it was the first time I had recalled the name Davis associated with the Whitechapel Infirmary. I think it was Paul Begg who discovered the Thames Police Court record for Aaron Davis Cohen and I had thought the settlement record of him as Davis Cohen supported a link. As it turned out on comaprison with other names in the settlement record, it does actually also say David. So that's the end of that idea -It saying Davis, I mean.

[Debra Arif]

That entry looks different from the one in the workhouse infirmary. Is that from Colney Hatch? The one from the workhouse also looks more like David, but adding another level of complexity, Fido did associate the suspect with Aaron Davis Cohen who was arraigned at the Thames Magistrate Court n 8 December 1888, the same date as that of the brothel keeper (Gertrude Smith) from Whitechapel Road. I don't think he necessarily proved it was the same man, however, and one can find other Davis Cohens in Whitechapel.

Yes, it is different. It is from the orders of removal and settlement index I referenced in post 19 -Stepney Board of Guardians/Whitechapel, unfortunately I don't think the actual examination notes still exist. David Cohen would have been examined for settlement to see who footed the bill for his asylum stay.

[R. J. Palmer]

Having looked the records again today, I have to say that what I intially thought said Davis, when compared with another name in the register ending in 'd' does in fact seem to say David after all. The formation of the 'd' is unusual in that the upward stroke sloped to the left on handwriting that sloped to the right - something seen in much older documents.

That entry looks different from the one in the workhouse infirmary. Is that from Colney Hatch? The one from the workhouse also looks more like David, but adding another level of complexity, Fido did associate the suspect with Aaron Davis Cohen who was arraigned at the Thames Magistrate Court n 8 December 1888, the same date as that of the brothel keeper (Gertrude Smith) from Whitechapel Road. I don't think he necessarily proved it was the same man, however, and one can find other Davis Cohens in Whitechapel.

[Debra Arif]

Thanks Steve. I get a bit confused with teh details about David Cohen TBH. The way I understood it was that in the Whitechapel records he was named David Cohen and then Aaron Davis Cohen in the Thames Police Court records. I thought it was interesting he was listed as Davis Cohen in a Whitechapel Infirmary related document so that's why I mentioned it. It's a pity that the examination notes don't seem to have survived as they might have covered details of Cohen's antecedents, having said that, he entered the asylum with nothing known about him, so maybe there was nothing found. The examination would have been to see which board picked up the tab for his stay in Colney Hatch.

Having looked the records again today, I have to say that what I intially thought said Davis, when compared with another name in the register ending in 'd' does in fact seem to say David after all. The formation of the 'd' is unusual in that the upward stroke sloped to the left on handwriting that sloped to the right - something seen in much older documents.
So nothing new and still diappointing to know there may have been other records that are now mising, especially as a woman named Ada Drew also appears in this index and is the person I believe also went by the name Ada Wilson and would loved to have seen her examination notes!

[Chris Phillips]

I've been saying for years if not decades that it is weird as hell that Macnaghten dated Kosminski's committal to a time before he (Macnaghten) was at Scotland Yard, so I was glad to read that someone else appreciates this strange enigma. Anyone can make a mistake about dates, but it is really quite strange that he associates the suspect with a time when he was not yet at the Yard, and this does suggest (to me) that historians of the case have got something wrong. He couldn't have been out of the loop in 1890/1891. It's not credible.

At the same time, I find it impossible to believe that Aaron Kosminski is a coincidence and a red herring, and that is one hell of a wrench thrown into the machinery of Fido's theory. The 'confusion' theory creates a paradox, and a paradox suggest that the theory is wrong. In other words, for there to have been a confusion of names (as Fido, believed--'Orsam' is saying something different) there would have to have been the opportunity for a confusion to have occurred, and if 'Cohen' had been positively identified, it is hard to see how Aaron Kosminki would have been watched, etc. in 1890/1891. The theory is internally inconsistent.

Meanwhile, hauling a London suspect all the way to the seaside to avoid the scrutiny of the London press has never made any sense to me. It's an interesting mystery, but I'm not sure anyone has yet come up with an entirely compelling suggestion. I dismissed it when I first read it, but as the years roll by, I'm more inclined to think Evans and Rumbelow are right and the Seaside Home is a gaff for the Seaman's Home in Wells Street, and Swanson is combining three different suspects into one: Sadler, Kosminski, and Suspect X. I'm open to persuasion, though.

Yes, the strangeness of that date being before Macnaghten joined the force has struck me in the past too.

If Aaron Kozminski was meant, and if Macnaghten wasn't confusing him with someone else, the only explanation I can think of would be that Anderson in the first version of his memoirs was right about the identification happening after the suspect was committed to an asylum, and it was Swanson who was confused. For what it's worth, Anderson reportedly said the same* in a public lecture in 1904. Not that I think Aaron Kozminski really went into an asylum in March 1889 (I think that would have been mentioned in his later records). But if he went into an asylum before he was suspected, it would be easier to believe that Macnaghten could have got the date wrong.

(* Edit: Or rather he said the suspect wasn't suspected until after he was committed, without mentioning an identification.)