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**Murder Casebook 5th November, 2013**

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  • **Murder Casebook 5th November, 2013**

    I guess a few people will already know about this but it's new to me-
    I just saw an advert for a new series of Fred Dinage's Murder casebook on the Crime Investigation channel and the first episode on November 5th deals with the Ripper:

    http://www.crimeandinvestigation.co....-episodes.html

    I really like this series and am looking forward to this one!
    I noticed in the advert that a forensic artist is involved in the program-does that suggest an MJK facial re-consrtuction I wonder? I also spotted some family tree tables for what looks like a young girl born in 1888 to a man with two different names? Can't wait to see what it's all about!

  • #2
    Our John is in this one. Because he's become a media whore. Nowadays, I'm just a whore.

    PHILIP
    Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd

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    • #3
      If it's Fred Dinenage shouldn't How be on it?
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XK0RImTvh0

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      • #4
        I'm disappointed already. The background blurb in the CI website I linked to says that Marie Jeanette Kelly was found to be pregnant...

        http://www.crimeandinvestigation.co....per/crime.html

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
          I'm disappointed already. The background blurb in the CI website I linked to says that Marie Jeanette Kelly was found to be pregnant...

          http://www.crimeandinvestigation.co....per/crime.html
          They didn't get it from me! :-)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by John Bennett View Post
            They didn't get it from me! :-)
            I never thought they did, John.
            If they had it would have been fantastic news as it would mean you'd found Dr Phillips' missing post mortem report or something exciting like that!

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            • #7
              Hi Debs. This channel you're talking about sounds pretty cool. I wish I got it where I live.

              Yours truly,

              Tom Wescott

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              • #8
                Tom:
                There's an episode on John George Haigh ( the Acid Bath Murderer ) here on YouTube :

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onZCqj84ZzM

                Phil Hutchinson has a video on Haigh too....
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
                  Hi Debs. This channel you're talking about sounds pretty cool. I wish I got it where I live.

                  Yours truly,

                  Tom Wescott
                  Yeah, there's some good stuff on it. Some not so good too. The programme ads can be a bit off though. There's one advert running at the moment for a new series "Women who Kill" which features a host of beautiful women all glammed up, some in lingerie, all wielding lethal weapons, while in the background a woman sings lines like- "I'd like to tie you up in knots until your heart stops"...
                  I think there'd be a bit of a hoo ha if a series about male killers and their crimes were glamourised in this way.

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                  • #10
                    Agreed, some of the content is a bit off. (I know the particular ad you're referring to Debs).

                    But some of the series are great: Crimes that Shook Britain and Born to Kill are excellent for the high-profile cases. I really enjoy Nightmare in Suburbia for some of the lesser-known stories.
                    DavidGB

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                    • #11
                      Just saw the trailer for this programme and it said a forensic artist has a new clue - I think the artists name was Norman "Kirtlan"?

                      Apparently he considers "a murder in Gateshead" to have been committed by JtR and gives talks profiling the killer

                      It also showed a small portion of a family tree and then combined them as if they were the same people

                      The people were William Benjamin Belcher born Paddington London 1864, marrying Anne Jenkins Webber born 1862 Budleigh Salterton Devon, producing a daughter Kate Ellen Belcher born 1886 Paddington London

                      These were combined with William Williams marrying Anne Webber producing Kate Ellen Williams, other details of birthplace and date remaining the same

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                      • #12
                        A quote from an article about Mr Kirtlan's talks entitled "Jack the Ripper; The Truth"

                        "In many movies he's portrayed as a tall man with a black coat and top hat, stalking the mists of Old Whitechapel

                        But Norman warned: “Once we adopt that image we can never look at the case with an open mind.
                        “We have to start with a clean piece of paper and look broadly at a case that, while it happened over a century ago, still provides opportunities for discovering new evidence.
                        “Using modern profiling methods and examining the evidence with a completely open mind, it seems obvious that there were many flaws in the case - and the many suspects put forward by authors over the years.”
                        His research has led him to a Ripper-style murder, here in the North East. A week before Ripper victim Mary Kelly was murdered in her squalid room, Jane Savage was found on Birtley Fell, Gateshead, with her intestines spilled out and her throat cut.

                        “The Metropolitan police were terrified of this escalating,” said Norman. “Ripper detectives from London were very quickly at the scene and discounted the possibility that the Ripper was responsible. Her lover Willy Waddell was blamed and he was hanged.
                        “Perhaps an innocent man was sent to the gallows as a result of the Ripper’s handiwork being discounted.”

                        He added: “Serial killers, we now know, travel outside of their original killing zone. The railways were regular and reliable, and if we look at Yorkshire Ripper Peter Sutcliffe - he, was mobile and at liberty to kill at will. There were other Ripper-type murders around the country, and if the police had been wholly ethical back in 1888, we could accept that Jane Savage’s lover was the murderer. But we can’t rule out the London connection.”

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                        • #13
                          A week before Mary Kelly was murdered?
                          And if the police had been wholly ethical?
                          What a year so far with the "mainstream" publicity!
                          And while the honest research is basically only known to the few here.
                          I think I'll just stick my finger down my throat.
                          Best Wishes,
                          Cris Malone
                          ______________________________________________
                          "Objectivity comes from how the evidence is treated, not the nature of the evidence itself. Historians can be just as objective as any scientist."

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                          • #14
                            Has anyone any idea what the Belcher / Williams connection is?

                            Those people don't appear on a cursory search of genealogical sites

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                            • #15
                              Cris:

                              You ain't kidding about the mainstream wanker press....especially this year....

                              "“Perhaps an innocent man was sent to the gallows as a result of the Ripper’s handiwork being discounted.”--in reference to the Gateshead Murder.

                              Unbelievable....

                              You know Cris....I think we, as a group, ought to reassess whether those of us who are Ripperologists should care if the 'mainstream' accepts our work.

                              We see people from time to time complain, and sometimes rightfully so, that people from without the community look down on Ripperologists.

                              With people like this fellow, Kirtlan, in the 'mainstream'....they can have the frigging mainstream.
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