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The Dutfield's Yard Photo

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  • The Dutfield's Yard Photo

    Mishter Brown has told me that if I want a poll, I have to do it myself.

    Don't mishunderstand - I think the photo in question is exactly what Mishter Hutchinson says that it is. But some few here - and others over at Casebook, are not so shure.

    Tell Mishter Brown what your opinion is.
    YESH - A rare find, that. Congratulations to Mishter Hutchinson!
    NO - It's close, but no cigar. Thish photo is of another, similar location.
    PROBABLY IS BUT NOT 100% SURE - I want to believe that it is, but it's different from what was described in 1888.
    DUNNO - I'll reserve judgment until Mishter Hutchinson's book comes out.
    SOD OFF - Thish poll is an insult to Ripperologists everywhere!

  • #2
    Hi ho

    I has a question: this bleating about provenance ...... because something has provenance surely does not mean anything as to what it shows?

    I thought provenance meant something could be traced back to where it was supposed to come from?

    I dont see how the provenance in this case confirms that it is Dutfields yard?

    It most likely is.......but claiming some kind of "provenance" is surely neither here nor there as to its being Dutfields yard?

    I could be wrong though.



    • #3
      I believe that there is a general assumption that this is Dutfield's Yard at 40 Berner Street; and I don't like assumptions.
      I've made my concerns plain enough.
      I don't like the background, and feel that the efforts to convince us that it represents certain buildings in a certain nearby street are very uncertain, to say the least.
      The young lady to the immediate front left of the photograph would not look out of place on a modern 'catwalk'. She is far too modern for the supposed date of the image, both in looks and dress.
      And then there are those pesky cobbles.


      • #4
        I'm at least 99% sure so it's a YESH for me.


        • #5
          This poll is an insult. I'm disappointed that the smack is being started on another site now.


          • #6
            I would love it to be a real find, but like A.P suggests
            something does not seem right, it looks like a works lunchtime photo.
            Rob produced a petticoat lane photo which shows a host of people being photographed and suggested it was the norm for people to like being involved in a picture, but that scene was relevant to a middlesex street shoot depicting market life, which is not so with Dutfields yard.
            According to Philip the American lady who commissioned the photograph was after a JTR murder location, so why the line up present, she could have captured a shot of local inhabitants seperately if she was so besotted with them, after she had the yard caught without a audience present, which does not depict a woman being murdered, after all poor Liz hardly had sightseers present on that historic night....
            I remember being convinced that the interior of millers court was avaliable to us some years back, strikingly convincing,but the wrong court so it transpired.
            More solid imformation is required.
            Regards Richard.


            • #7
              I don't see why any sensible discussion, or poll, should be seen as an insult to anything. We are presented with images and documents and we assemble and disassemble them further by probing what we are presented with. I do not think such a process casts doubts on an individual's honesty or integrity; and it is basically foolish, and childish, to think that.
              I don't probe or question the finder, but rather the information or image I'm presented with... and you know what I enjoy doing that.
              This is good clean fun. I think many forget that and indulge themselves in the cult of personality.
              Take your personal issues to Facebook.
              This is chess.


              • #8
                Dear Kel:

                No, the poll is not an insult to Phil specifically or at least it should not be taken that way. Its become the standard operating procedure in Ripperology to question things... meaning everything.

                To me and speaking only for myself, I am sure Phil and Clacky and whomever else helped Phil out took every precaution to assure that the Yard "lines up " with the background and all the other details as well.... I know that Phil Hutchinson has always been nothing short than a stand up, forthright man and based on what he says... again,since I would not be qualified to determine whether what he says is correct or not in any event...I take his word for what he says and thats that. If he says he is absolutely certain that its Dutfield's Yard, I believe him.

                This photo, speaking for myself only, does absolutely nothing "for me" in terms of Ripper theory or the advancement of the Case. Its a photo of a murder site some 12 years or so after the crime, not a document or a letter "recently found" which would enhance one's knowledge of the Case overall or more specifically, alter a previously held contention one way or the other. Again, thats just me. I am just one Ripperologist.

                Denying people the privelege to discuss whether they "think" the Dutfield's Yard photo is legitimate or not is potentially a poisonous concept. If people were denied the right to offer their contrary views, in the long run it might be counterproductive to Phil, who is obviously happy for his acquisition of the photo and any lingering sentiment that it was considered verboten to discuss it "freely" might have reprecussions down the line.

                So while others may wish to discuss the photo for its provenance...all the while avoiding any aspersions cast on Phil himself...I will be elsewhere.

                The same sentiments that I have towards the Maybrick Saga and the threads here on the Forums...which are that I do not wish to participate in them, other than occasionally asking a question or two of no real significance....are at work here. It ain't my dance.

                Those who are satisfied that there is no question as to its provenance, should take my cue and do the 23 skidoo. Avoid this thread and go elsewhere on the site.
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                Contact [email protected]


                • #9

                  I am not against discussion of this photo, and people are free to question it as they see fit, regardless of how I feel about it.

                  And honestly, questioning EVERYTHING is sometimes just retarded. How do we know the Mary Kelly photos are real? Why were they "discovered" after so long? Why do you just blindly accept them? How do we know anything is real? I mean, really.

                  I was expressing my discomfort with the poll only, which gives more weight to the dissent about the photo than it deserves. A slew of experts know this photo is real. A poll on the site with about half of everybody saying they don't believe in it makes it LOOK like this photo is seriously under dispute.

                  Just because you can turn up a million sites saying the moon landing was faked doesn't mean it's true. NASA doesn't have a poll on its website.

                  A regular Joe passing by this website who only sees the poll will now think this photo is thought to be some kind of hoax, just because a few people (who are either crackpots or don't know the facts) say so.

                  You can say the poll is not an insult all you want to. It's my opinion that it is.

                  If A.P. thinks that's a childish opinion, so be it. I've heard far more childish ones in the last few days.

                  I'm done too.

                  Oh, and for the record: the "this poll is an insult" option was added after I said so in the thread. The poll is parroting me; I'm not parroting it. I didn't have that voting option.


                  • #10
                    Never seen the pic is there a URL for it?


                    • #11
                      Dear Kelly:

                      What I would like to also state is that if anyone did have questions as to the certainty of whether or not it is a photo of Dutfields Yard, they should provide either JMenges or Phil their question ,either on this thread or to either of them via email or p.m. and let Phil handle it on the upcoming Rippercast program.

                      I think that it is incumbent on any person who has issues with the photo to voice their rationale for disputing it if they are going to voice their opinion at all....
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                      Contact [email protected]


                      • #12
                        Crie de Couer

                        Has anyone got a copy of this piccy they can PM me?


                        • #13
                          Actually, I think there was some questioning regarding the MJK #2 photo, wasn't there? MJK #1 was from the pre-diary era when we were all innocent.


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by kelly
                            Oh, and for the record: the "this poll is an insult" option was added after I said so in the thread. The poll is parroting me; I'm not parroting it. I didn't have that voting option.

                            Sorry, Mish kelly, but I amended the poll after seeing your first post. Mishter Brown, was, as is often the case, late to the table. No slight intended; I am just trying to cover all sentiments in the poll, and I wasn't expecting one such as that.

                            Polls seem to be useful for canvassing the opinions of the members here, for many will vote anonymously on a poll when they might be reluctant to post an opinion for which there is no anonymity. As anticipated, most thus far seem to believe the photograph to be authentic, but there is a faction which clearly does not. Just as for Mishter Maybrick's diary and watch.


                            • #15
                              YESH - A rare find, that. Congratulations to Mishter Hutchinson!