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Where Did JTR Stay During the Murders?

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  • Where Did JTR Stay During the Murders?

    While his murders all took place in London's east end, the Ripper could have been staying practically anywhere during that time. Where do our members think he was most likely to be found?
    26
    He lived in the very heart of his killing grounds.
    53.85%
    14
    He lived in the near east end, but a safe distance away from the killing grounds.
    23.08%
    6
    He lived in an outlying area such as Bethnal Green.
    0.00%
    0
    He lived elsewhere within London or its suburbs.
    7.69%
    2
    He lived in Liverpool and commuted for the weekend.
    7.69%
    2
    He lived elsewhere within England.
    0.00%
    0
    He lived elsewhere within the British Isles.
    0.00%
    0
    He lived on the continent, just as Patricia Cornwell said.
    0.00%
    0
    He lived on board a ship.
    0.00%
    0
    He lived in London Hospital.
    0.00%
    0
    None of the above.
    7.69%
    2

  • #2
    In a seedy, nearby rooming house.

    You know the old saying: The best place to hide, is in plain sight. And this way, he certainly become acquainted with the area faster.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Guys,

      I'm sure this is well known, but thought I'd bring it up.

      Over a year ago, I saw a Discovery Times documentary on JTR, involving Scotland Yard's BAU. One of the things they did was geographic profiling. From this, they place the killer in or very near Fashion Street.

      Dave

      Comment


      • #4
        I'd think #1 is the most likely. That's what I'd bet a fifty on anyway. I think a $50 bill is supposed to be bad luck so make that 5 sawbucks.

        Comment


        • #5
          Stan and Dave:

          Yeah, most people do seem to feel that the Ripper lived near the heart of the killing fields.

          My question for you two esteemed gentlemen is this:

          Did you think or feel that way prior to that program ( I believe it was the one with Kim Rossmo...who I hope JMenges gets off lazy hiney and nails down for the Rippercast Program....)...or afterwards?

          Or...did the program simply reinforce your prior opinions after viewing the show ?

          Thank you.
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          • #6
            I'm not sure if I took in the program so I guess it didn't influence me How.

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            • #7
              Hi How,

              I know some have debated that he did not need to be local, because it was the hookers who took him to their "place," so to speak, and it was always near enough to a major thoroughfare - which makes sense on the hooker's part, for ease of continued plying trade.

              Albeit my thought has pretty much always been that he was local, although I never had a specific area except for East End.

              But having watched the DT special early last year and again this year, I now have a narrowed-down place of residence to associate with the killer.

              ( * as an aside - the DT special also covered victimology, and I was asstounded with their take on Stride, because they said they knew very little about her?? I guess that is all part-n-parcel of working within a TV production, especially the extremely incorrect portrayal of Brown seeing the young couple by the Board School - wow - that wasn't a dramatization...that was fiction. * )

              Dave

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              • #8
                Dear Dave:

                Sor, can you elaborate for a moment with the gang on your views of the Nichols murder? Just to deviate from the theme of this thread for a second...

                Over the last year, I have been persuaded to view that murder as a possible "blitz" style killing, where there was NO attempt to liase sexually on the part of Nichols.

                Whats your view...no need to dissect the murder...on whether that was a sexual liason and how do you think it matches up with the Stride murder?

                Is it possible that both were assaulted with no intent to pursue a sexual encounter?

                Thanks !!
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                • #9
                  I was tempted to click "London Hospital"

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                  • #10
                    First its wearing wigs...threatening Jon Rees with sexual battery...and now this.

                    Whats this world coming to? Everyone KNOWS that after you scored with a lady of the night, the first place you would go back to is the Currie Ward !!!

                    You're gettin' dumber in your old age,Mike.
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                    • #11
                      With no gates, no staff and open and unlocked doors, it would be the best place to take a lady of the night, day, afternoon, and breakfast!

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                      • #12
                        Of course the Hospital was open to all and there were condom machines in the Currie Ward...we all KNOW that !! I think they featured vibrating beds for them what needed a little extra stimulation in the Davis Ward too.

                        I admit I didn't know about the bed and breakfast,Mike...I wonder if Harris and Ivor knew that????
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by How Brown View Post
                          Dear Dave:

                          Sor, can you elaborate for a moment with the gang on your views of the Nichols murder? Just to deviate from the theme of this thread for a second...

                          Over the last year, I have been persuaded to view that murder as a possible "blitz" style killing, where there was NO attempt to liase sexually on the part of Nichols.

                          Whats your view...no need to dissect the murder...on whether that was a sexual liason and how do you think it matches up with the Stride murder?

                          Is it possible that both were assaulted with no intent to pursue a sexual encounter?

                          Thanks !!
                          Hi How,

                          I'll do the best I can.

                          For what it's worth, I don't view the killings as being sexually oriented in the sense of getting off via murder. But what is the best way to ensnare a prostitute? Pretend to be a client; (Bundy, as an example, used ruses as part of his entrapment, such as pretending to be injured and requiring assistance, etc).

                          (Plus, I'm sure everyone is familiar with the penny-dog-rig and shilling-shag; although, I cannot image a Victorian East End street walker charging a shilling - she wouldn't be in business very long . And yet another stance is face-to-face; while the male does his business, the female isn't actually joined with him...think about it . In that circumstance, the hooker has more awareness/control of what's going on than does the client who is...pre-occupied.)

                          In one sense, I think, the victims were "blizted," by being knocked out first (an action the hookers were obviosuly not expecting), but not in the sense of suddenly being jumped upon from out of the shadows like an ambush spider.

                          Depending on who considers whom a victim, Tabram can skew this, but it can be easily argued that the sk's trigger was pulled and hence more frenzied with her, while the others can be viewed as an sk coming into his own, once blood was drawn.

                          Stride, however, differs in this respect, (and yet can vary depending on which version of Schwartz's account is accepted and as to whether or not either is 100% accepted or not).
                          My take on Stride, while not a premeditated ambush, would be closer to a "blitz," based on the actions of Schwartz's first man. Sudden rage, as induced by alcohol, accounts for a lot in this case. And not everyone requires 1/2 a bottle of whiskey, let's say, to become a maniac or a falling-down drunk. I know people who get drunk after 1, maybe 2 drinks, and others who can drink almost all night and give absolutely no appearance or indication of being legally drunk. Just as I know people who are happy drunks while others can become a mean drunk, depending on what type of alcohol they are drinking; (and the same mean drunk can be quite the happy chatter box when drinking something different).

                          I would say Nichols met her fate the way most of the others had:
                          approached (her to him or him to her - for Nichols & Chapman: her to him)
                          went to a preferred (or convenient) location
                          Knocked out
                          Laid out
                          Killed
                          mutilated

                          True, Stride was approached, but not in the same manner, and she no gave indication of approaching the man; (an indication that she did not know him).
                          Was Schwartz's first man looking for sex? Possibly.
                          But sex or not, Stride obviously rejected the advances.
                          But instead of moving along, he became enraged.

                          just my tu'pennce worth.

                          Dave

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                          • #14
                            Thanks very much for the elaboration Dave.

                            One of the reasons...not the primary reason... I kept at this "blitz" style murder concept in regard to some of the victims...or at least 3-4 of them, was primarily because I sensed or took it as possibly being fact that the killer at Berner Street was partially/fully intoxicated and that in addition to him being intoxicated,he easily lost his temper with possibly the first prostitute who said "No.." to him. This "might have been" the first and last time he hears that word in the skein, although I understand your position on Stride NOT being a Ripper victim completely.

                            Nina has influenced me into thinking Stride was possibly not in "the mood" at that point in time to satisfy just any client and may have been waiting for someone special,with whatever those two would have in mind excluding any 'quickie" street sale. Your work on BSMan's role in the Berner Street crime scene influenced me further and to me at least, he is the man we are looking for without a doubt.

                            I tried to expand our views on the Ripper modus operandi by suggesting several times in various places that we seem to have,in our community, a belief that the Ripper and Stride's killer ( to cover both bases here ) approached them for sex and that no other method of approach ( blitzing) were possible.

                            I am now in a quandary,theoretically, since I believe that Nichols may have simply been bushwhacked as was Eddowes, in theory ,as well as Tabram...but now have difficulty in applying that 'blitz" theory to Stride's murder,since I think he either attempted to take her somewhere else (first) and then when that failed,attempted to utilitze Dutfield's Yard ( alternative spot ) and lost his temper.

                            Maybe its a combination of two approaches,Dave...I don't know. I doubt seriously that anyone heard anything from Brady Street which sort of enables my personal "blitz' theory to remain afloat...but this work on Stride has changed my thinking. Perhaps whatever worked at the particular moment sufficed him. I have trouble imagining Nichols acquiesing to a "kneetrembler" on the pavement, while suitable places undoubtedly were available for that sort of behavior.

                            I guess I'm gonna have to go back to square one with my modus operandi theorization.
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by How Brown View Post
                              I think they featured vibrating beds...
                              ...presumably that's what the "sexual battery" was used for.

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