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  • admin tim
    replied
    Originally posted by Paul
    Aside from the hype by publishers, walking tour companies, and others with a vested interest in promoting an individual as an ‘expert’, the only people who can elevate someone to that position are that person's peers.
    An excellent point and part of what I was after.

    So what all does make an expert in this field? First, I'd say that there is no such thing as a 'Ripper Expert', simply because no one knows the slightest detail about the man - if indeed he was a man. Now a 'Whitechapel Murders Expert', that's an altogether different matter.

    I have never even heard of two of these 'experts' who are ripper tour guides, and I'd like to know how they came by that title. Was it by popular consensus of more knowledgeable peers? Was it just made up for promotional purposes? In these cases, I'd guess that they may have a command of Ripper Trivia and minutia of the case, but so do a lot of people on this site. I'd stack our boy Philip against either one of these guys; but is he considered an 'expert' by his peers?

    One could say the same thing about Howard, but he has no peers.

    In the case of Karen Trenouth, the term 'ripper expert' becomes just a joke, and a bad one at that. This is entirely self-promotional, and the only other person around who might agree with her self-assessment is that Chief Choo-Choo fellow from some few years back. But at least she took that 'Ripper Expert' blog down out of shame.

    The well-known trio of Usual Suspects - Evans, Begg, Rumbelow - are considered 'ripper experts' by their peers by dint of personal and professional accomplishment in the field, including the authoring of books used as standard ripper references and the possession of an encyclopedic knowledge of the case. Yet, viewing the comments posted above, there is no clear consensus as to who the 'top' expert is. Nor need there be.

    The author of one of the finest ripper books ever written, Philip Sugden, is seldom, if ever, mentioned as a 'ripper expert'. Why would this be? Does he keep too low a profile?

    Or could it be a situation like in golf, where one may be an excellent zero-handicap amateur golfer but not considered 'expert' until one turns pro?

    And so on. It may not matter to some, and to others it may be nothing more than an ego trip. Myself, I've been in serious ripperology since about 1975, and I've written numerous ripper articles for the top magazines in the business, but I would hardly consider myself a 'ripper expert'. Of course, I've also been a process engineer for 35 years and some consider me an expert in my area of the field, and I know at least as much about JTR as I do the other. So go figure.

    We've seen some good comments here, so let's keep going. Maybe it'll turn out like that segment of Gulliver's Travels, where he came across the land in which everyone in the army was a general, except the one private who was expected to do all of the fighting.

    Leave a comment:


  • SirRobertAnderson
    replied
    The Sweetest Girl

    Originally posted by Monty View Post
    Ah, but you know what they say Paul.

    Time is money.

    Monty
    Some live for the bill
    Some kill for the bill (yeah)
    She wind for the bill
    She grind for the bill (yeah)
    Some spill for the bill
    If they got to pay the bill (yeah)
    Tonight Wyclef, Akon,
    Weezy on the bill (yeah)
    (Where my money at?)

    High school she was the girl
    That make me do the hula hoop around the gym
    (Just to get a peek again, she's a 10)
    High school she was the girl
    That make me do the hula hoop around the gym
    (Just to get a peek again, she's a 10)
    Never thought that she would come and work for the president
    Mr. George Washington
    (Where my money at?)
    She falls, and he calls

    She had a good day, bad day, sunny day, rainy day
    All he'd wanna know is
    (Where my money at?)
    Closed legs don't get fed, go out and make my bread
    (Where my money at?)
    She ended up in roll call, bruised up, scarred hard
    All he'd wanna know is
    (Where my money at?)
    She thought he'd call
    (Where my money at?)

    So I'mma tell you, like Wu told me
    Cash rules everything around me
    Singin', dollar bill, y'all
    Singin', dollar bill, y'all
    So I'mma tell you, like Wu told me
    Cash rules everything around me
    Singin', dollar bill, y'all
    Singin', dollar bill, y'all

    So pimpin' got harder 'cause hoes got smarter
    On the strip is something they don't wanna be a part of
    Rather be up in the club shakin' for a dub
    Get triple times the money and spending it like they wanna

    They got they mind on the money, money on they mind
    They got they finger on the trigger, hands on their nines
    See every day they feel the struggle, but stand on the ground
    And ain't nobody take it from us, and that's the bottom line

    But I know
    There's a drop in the block
    You move slow
    You gettin' pressure from cops
    You don't know, how not to lay low
    'Cause 25 to life's no joke

    To all my real gorillas thuggin'
    On top of corners every day strugglin'
    All the beautiful womens gettin' money
    Washin' them dollar bills like laundry

    See I'mma tell you, like Wu told me
    Cash rules everything around me
    Singin' dollar, dollar bill, y'all (dollar, dollar bill, yeah)
    Singin' dollar, dollar bill, y'all (dollar, dollar bill, yeah)
    See I'mma tell you, like Wu told me
    Cash rules everything around me
    Singin' dollar, dollar bill, y'all
    Singin' dollar, dollar bill, y'all

    Oh, money, money-money-money-money
    Money, money-money-money
    It drive the world crazy (She used to be...)

    She used to be the sweetest girl
    She used to be the sweetest girl ever
    Whatever, now she like Sour Amaretto
    She wears a dress to the T like the letter
    And if you make it rain she will be under the weather
    She used to run track back in high school
    Now she tricks on the track right by school
    She takes a loss 'cause she don't wanna see her child lose
    So respect her, or pay up for the time used
    And then she runs to the pastor
    And he tells her there will be a new chapter
    But she feels no different after
    And then she asks him
    (Where my money at?)

    See I'mma tell you, like Wu told me
    Cash rules everything around me
    Singin' dollar, dollar bill, y'all
    Singin' dollar, dollar bill, y'all
    See I'mma tell you like Wu told me
    Cash rules everything around me
    Singin' dollar, dollar bill, y'all
    Singin' dollar, dollar bill, y'all

    Leave a comment:


  • Monty
    replied
    Ah, but you know what they say Paul.

    Time is money.

    Monty

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul
    replied
    Originally posted by Monty View Post
    For a small fee.

    Monty
    Yes, I didn't like to mention that. But small! Sheesh, I had to take out a second mortgage to pay what you demanded. And I only asked for the time...

    Leave a comment:


  • Monty
    replied
    For a small fee.

    Monty

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul
    replied
    Originally posted by SirRobertAnderson View Post
    No effing way.

    Now, let me be clear. To me, this is a hobby. An unclean, pustular hobby, but just that. If someone loves the trivia aspects of the case, then I say God bless them. There is no "correct" path to enlightenment, because the field has shown repeatedly - especially vis a vis Jeff's documentary - that enlightenment is not the goal. It's trying to trip people up on whether there were adequate amounts of dung on the streets or if Stride was pushed-me-pull-you-ed. So it's really not about the Ripper, is it? It's about egos and hurt and anything BUT a community.
    That a bit of a jaundiced view! Ripper studies certainly does have some people who want to expose the errors of others just to show off their own perceived abilities or to diminish the stock of the other person, but surely they are in a very small minority and their motives quickly and easily recognised. We shouldn’t tar everyone with the same brush. There is a community. People like Chris Scott and Debra Arif and Robert Clack and Neil Bell and…. dozens of people, all very approachable, all very knowledgeable, all pleased and willing to help and share.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul
    replied
    Why the concern?

    Does it matter?

    Obviously, writing a book, guiding a walk, having a collection of ‘Ripperana’, or running a Ripper website doesn’t automatically bestow the label of ‘expert’. Indeed, some books and walks expose the author or guide as precisely the opposite.

    Aside from the hype by publishers, walking tour companies, and others with a vested interest in promoting an individual as an ‘expert’, the only people who can elevate someone to that position are that person's peers. And it is based on whatever their criteria of what makes an expert may be, which is generally someone who through study, training or experience has gained more than just a proficient ability in their chosen field. In Ripperology this would presumably be someone who possesses a knowledge and understanding of the time and place and events.

    Leave a comment:


  • Magpie
    replied
    Basic rule of thumb: If someone claims to be a Ripper expert--they aren't.

    Leave a comment:


  • admin tim
    replied
    What do the people say?

    Karen Trenouth is a self-proclaimed ripper expert who has "solved" the case.

    As long as no one else has studied JtR, you could probably convince them that you too, are a self-proclaimed ripper expert who has "solved" the case.


    Rumbelow is not a cheap thrills guide--he is the most informed of all the Ripper experts.

    Ripper expert Paul Begg draws on his vast knowledge of the case to give the fullest account of the story to date.

    Uncovering Jack the Ripper's London, by Ripper expert Richard Jones takes you on a fascinating journey back to the autumn of 1888 and tells the story of the 10 weeks over which the Whitechapel murders occurred.

    The Jack the Ripper Walk examines the horrific Whitechapel Murders. Learn about the infamous Ripper as we explore London's East End and discover where victims lived and died with Jack the Ripper expert and guide André Price.

    Unmasking Jack the Ripper, an acclaimed drama documentary was written by and is presented by author and leading ripper expert Richard Jones.

    In fact we have more Jack the Ripper expert guides than any other London walks company.

    Stewart Evans is the primary ripper expert and they also use Don Rumblelow.

    Ripper expert Stewart Evans (Ultimate Jack the Ripper Sourcebook) has made a persuasive case for the American Dr. Tumblety,

    Article: Jack the Ripper expert to write fifth book on the subject.

    Pushed to the wall, the major Ripper expert in England <Rumbelow> admits that the mystery has no clear, proven solution, but "everything is based on speculation."


    Well. Lots of opinions, lots of claims, lots of promotion. But what makes a Ripper Expert?

    Write a Ripper book?
    Lead paid Ripper Tours?
    Own a vast collection of Ripperana?
    Be a trivia expert on the Whitechapel Murders and Victorian Crime?
    Own and operate a Ripper Website?

    Just HOW does one differentiate between Ripper Experts and ordinary Ripperologists?

    We'd like to know. Seriously.

    Leave a comment:


  • Adam Went
    replied
    No way.

    I'd rather have half the knowledge of a Ripper trivia "expert" and feel that I could relate to those living in the Victorian era - how they lived, worked, socialised, etc. Anybody can be a trivia "expert", certainly doesn't mean that they understand what they are talking about.

    Cheers,
    Adam.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robert Linford
    replied
    Any library contains enough facts and information for us to be able to call the library an expert on all sorts of subjects. But the library isn't an expert on anything, because the library doesn't have a brain. It's just a room full of books.

    Leave a comment:


  • String
    replied
    I would say know the stuff is only half the battle, using common sense is more important so that you can filter out the nonsense.

    Leave a comment:


  • SirRobertAnderson
    replied
    No effing way.

    Now, let me be clear. To me, this is a hobby. An unclean, pustular hobby, but just that. If someone loves the trivia aspects of the case, then I say God bless them. There is no "correct" path to enlightenment, because the field has shown repeatedly - especially vis a vis Jeff's documentary - that enlightenment is not the goal. It's trying to trip people up on whether there were adequate amounts of dung on the streets or if Stride was pushed-me-pull-you-ed. So it's really not about the Ripper, is it? It's about egos and hurt and anything BUT a community.

    Leave a comment:


  • Howard Brown
    replied
    No....

    Leave a comment:


  • admin tim
    started a poll Ripper Experts

    Ripper Experts

    12
    YES - it's all about the details, baby!
    25.00%
    3
    NO - no one knows more about Jack the Ripper than I do, which is exactly nothing.
    41.67%
    5
    MAYBE - the medium is the message.
    8.33%
    1
    DEPENDS - if we revere the expert, then yes, of course. Otherwise......
    25.00%
    3
    Does being a trivia expert on the Whitechapel Murders and their environs make one a Ripper Expert?

    And let the debating begin.....
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