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The Best Fit For The Jewish Suspect

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  • #16
    Reading Trevor's posts on virtually anything justify the hours I spent trying to get the site in order for us and the public.

    Just kidding.
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    • #17
      Martin Fido's asylum notes:

      https://www.jtrforums.com/showthread...wvhPsLTeBfsSF0
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      • #18
        Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
        It doesnt matter what my position as to whether it is a fake or simply innacurate. It has proven to be flawed, so it doesnt matter who wrote it. The marginalia is unsafe to rely on. www.trevormarriott.co.uk
        Nobody's claiming the marginalia are accurate or reliable. Obviously there are problems with them. There are problems with most of the claims made by retired police officers about the Ripper case.

        But that's a far cry from claiming there is "no evidence" that the Kosminski in question was Aaron, and even further from saying the "suggestion" that he was Aaron is untenable.

        Clearly there is evidence to suggest that. You may not accept it, but if you won't even explain the basis of your non-acceptance, I don't think you'll persuade many people.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post
          Martin Fido searched the Colney Hatch Admission and Discharge registers for any foreign-born Jew who went there and died up to 4 years later (1888-1892), finding only David Cohen fit. I also went through the registers and can confirm Fido's findings.

          If, for whatever reason, Kosminski had changed his last name, the new name would appear in the register. If the police knew both names, in private communications, they may have referred to the suspect by his European last name, to affirm Robert Anderson's assertion that he was a Polish Jew, "Kosminski", but knowing he was confined under his gentrified last name, "Cohen".

          There were a lot more Cohen families than Kosminski families in London at that time, so if it slipped out that a guy named "Cohen" was suspected as being the Ripper, the public repercussions against those families would be considerable. If the name "Kosminski" was leaked, retaliation would be limited to a small group of people, but as it turned out, no published suspicion was attached to either name.
          Thanks for explaining your thinking, though I have trouble believing the police really worked like that.

          Regarding David Cohen - I think that, while there are obviously some discrepancies between the marginalia and what we know about Aaron Kozminski, the fit to David Cohen is worse on the whole. And the objection that Aaron was (later) in no fit state to commit the murders seems to apply at least as strongly to Cohen.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post
            Nobody's claiming the marginalia are accurate or reliable. Obviously there are problems with them. There are problems with most of the claims made by retired police officers about the Ripper case.

            But that's a far cry from claiming there is "no evidence" that the Kosminski in question was Aaron, and even further from saying the "suggestion" that he was Aaron is untenable.

            Clearly there is evidence to suggest that. You may not accept it, but if you won't even explain the basis of your non-acceptance, I don't think you'll persuade many people.
            If you have a copy of my book Jack the Ripper the real truth there is a lengthy chapter on the marginalia in which I set out in detail all the reasons why it is is flawed and unsafe. Too lengthy to post on here as per your request. www.trevormarriott.co.uk

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
              If you have a copy of my book Jack the Ripper the real truth there is a lengthy chapter on the marginalia in which I set out in detail all the reasons why it is is flawed and unsafe. Too lengthy to post on here as per your request. www.trevormarriott.co.uk
              You don't seem to be so reluctant when it comes to copying and pasting other people's work!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post
                You don't seem to be so reluctant when it comes to copying and pasting other people's work!
                The marginalia is flawed and unsafe and there is no evidence to show that Aaron Kosminki was the Kosminski mentioned in both the Marginalia and the MM, now thats something you clearly dont want to hear, or are prepared to accept but it is a fact so accept it and move on. www.trevormarriott.co.uk

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                • #23
                  I have not voted because I don't know. There is not enough to go on and then if we throw in confounding information it is extremely hard to narrow it down.

                  IMO, NOT Aaron Kosminski. He was apparently a mentally ill Polish Jew named Kosminski. He may not even be the only Kosminski with those identifying characteristics.

                  Jewish names can be complicated and multiple due to laws in vaious countries at the time. Kosmin is a location in Poland so theoretically many who hailed from there could technically be Kosminski.

                  Concerning the marginalia, things are written differently for an in-group. Everything in the marginalia could be a sort of code that those in the inner circle would easily understand but which outsiders might miss. Kosminski could have been a nickname applied by investigators. What if the JtR suspect acted like Aaron K. for instance? What if Kosminski became a term for mentally ill, Polish Jewish men known to police? We can all think of some Polish names that are used in telling Polish jokes for instance.

                  I have been watching a number of videos that deal with a sort of psychological profiling by investigators who worked on the Green River Killer (Gary Ridgway) and Golden State Killer (d Angelo) cases. They have said the type of killer that attacks, kills, then slashes a dead victim, cannot control his impulses and is totally disorganized. He has tremendous fantasies and when he feels like it he acts out his fantasies. That sounds like JtR!

                  All the JtR murders happened near or after pub closing time. We know of many killers who did not control their impulses after drinking alcohol.

                  I now see JtR as a working class man who lived in Whitechapel or nearby. He had lots of murderous fantasies and after a night in the pubs, sometimes his impulses took over. At that point he did not pay attention to risks but he was sober enough and cunning enough to make sure he escaped. That probably was not as hard as many authors have suggested. If he knew every inch of Whitechapel plus patterns of life therein, escape could have been fairly easy.

                  I think he took advantage of unlocked doors in rooming houses; in the front, out the back, like we see in Hanbury Street. Maybe JtR had regularly sought backyard privies after a night of drinking? I think if he had to pee or vomit he would do so on the street but perhaps he sometimes sought a privy, maybe even during a work day. Apparently backyard privies were accessed this way by a number of people. (There was a Ripperologist article suggesting JtR could have been a night soil man.)

                  There were many untreatable medical conditions at the time, which led to mental illness, including fairly common metabolic disorders we now correct with medication. It looks like there was a high rate of 'lunacy' back then, so it is difficult to trace out any one, mentally ill suspect.

                  The best I can make of the marginalia is that there was a male, low class, Polish Jewish suspect. Those were his main, distinguishing characteristics and his actual name may or may not have been, or included, 'Kosminski'. We tend to think of this suspect as a recent immigrant. For all we know, he could have been born and raised in London. We really know almost nothing, IMO.
                  The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
                    What if Kosminski became a term for mentally ill, Polish Jewish men known to police?.
                    Then I think Swanson would have written "The suspect was a Kosminski", not "Kosminski was the suspect."

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post
                      Regarding David Cohen - I think that, while there are obviously some discrepancies between the marginalia and what we know about Aaron Kozminski, the fit to David Cohen is worse on the whole. And the objection that Aaron was (later) in no fit state to commit the murders seems to apply at least as strongly to Cohen.
                      Aside from the name, Cohen is a better fit than the enfeebled former hairdresser, Aaron Kosminski. Cohen was also in a stronger "fit state" to commit the murders than Aaron. If the objection be made that Cohen had no brother (brother's house), the space across from his name under the column heading of Family in the admission and discharge registers is blank, so we don't know.

                      But all this has been said before, the brothel raid, Coram's knife, the unsigned September letter from (likely) Gertrude Smith to Warren, the link to Mitre Street.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post
                        Thanks for explaining your thinking, though I have trouble believing the police really worked like that.
                        Like what exactly? Keeping back an actual name?

                        Say Aaron Abrahams, Aaron Kosminski, Aaron David(s) Cohen, David Cohen...?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post
                          Like what exactly? Keeping back an actual name?

                          Say Aaron Abrahams, Aaron Kosminski, Aaron David(s) Cohen, David Cohen...?
                          Like calling someone by a name he never used instead of the name that was used in legal records, in case the information leaked to the general public. It's not a question of "holding back a name" because we're talking about one document marked "Confidential" and a set of annotations in a personal copy of a book written decades after the event, not anything likely to be made public.

                          And I'm sorry, but I don't believe it's objectively true that Cohen is a better fit for what's said about "Kosminski" than Aaron Kozminski is. The only respect in which he fits better is that he died the following year. He wasn't sent to Colney Hatch from Stepney Workhouse any more than Aaron was. There is no mention of the cause of his insanity being "unmentionable vices". Even Martin Fido acknowledged that the address given wasn't in the heart of the murder district. His nearest relative was "Unknown", not a brother as in Aaron's case. And of course there is no evidence whatsoever that he was a Kozminski.

                          I don't believe Martin Fido would ever have proposed Cohen if he'd found Aaron Kozminski sooner, and I certainly don't think it makes sense now to adopt a contrived, convoluted theory when there's an obvious, simple and direct interpretation of the facts available.

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                          • #28
                            Hi Scott!
                            Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post
                            But all this has been said before, the brothel raid, Coram's knife, the unsigned September letter from (likely) Gertrude Smith to Warren, the link to Mitre Street.
                            Do you have any information about David Cohen, a bookseller, Whitechapel Road 254 from the POD of 1895?

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                            • #29
                              No, I don't Karsten, but I'd certainly be interested.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post
                                His nearest relative was "Unknown", not a brother as in Aaron's case.
                                I saw it as left blank for Cohen. In fact his death certificate (filled out in January 1890) simply transfers all of the vital information over from the Colney Hatch registers with no changes to anything (like aging).

                                "I don't believe Martin Fido would ever have proposed Cohen if he'd found Aaron Kozminski sooner"

                                Martin said otherwise, in fact he wrote the Cohen book and several articles supporting Cohen as Anderson's suspect after he found Aaron Kosminski.

                                I agree with him that there was good reason to suspect that the two men had been confused. Cohen's first name was "Aaron." Cohen was likely changed from something else. It was virtually absent in the Polish records databases I searched some years ago, Coen or Koch being more common.

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