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Why Was There No Money Found on Any of the Victims?

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  • #16
    but what about knives or needles..as in sewing type needles, anything like that classed as a weapon?

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    • #17
      I had read somewhere that many women, and I would certainly suppose the prossies, carried hatpins as makeshift weapons during this time. Few today have seen hatpins, for they went out with low prices, but they were fearsome objects. From Wikipedia:

      A hatpin is a decorative pin for holding a hat to the head, usually by the hair. In Western culture, a hatpin is almost solely a female item and is often worn in a pair. They are typically around 20cm in length, with the pinhead being the most decorated part.
      The hatpin was invented to hold wimples and veils in place, and was hand-made. In Britain, demand eventually outgrew the number that could be supplied by hand-making, and they began to be imported from France. In 1832, an American machine was invented to manufacture the pins, and they became much more affordable. In Britain, they rose to popularity towards the end of the Victorian era, and continue to be a popular accessory. Laws were passed in 1908 in America which limited the length of hatpins, as there was a concern they might be used by suffragettes as weapons.


      This one is 8" long.

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      • #18
        Precisely what I mean, thanks Admin...you could do serious damage with that pretty thing...

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Mr. Poster
          I presume money would have transferred hands after the act, and assuming they were killed whilst getting ready to do th edeed......its not surprising there was no money on them.
          Lars:

          You may be right; I have searched diligently for more information on these 'transactions' and have come up dry. I know today one has to pay up front (thanks to Howard for that bit), but I wonder why one would not have had to do so in the East End circa 1888. What would stop a client from just walking off afterwards w/o paying the woman?

          Anyway, that's where the recent links posted on Victorian prostitution have come from - my trying to find an answer. Does anyone have a definitive answer here?

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          • #20
            I've sometimes entertained the idea that Jack asked Dark Annie to empty her own pockets (as part of a feigned mugging, perhaps), taking her by surprise as she - herself - bent down to line up another item by her feet.

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            • #21
              SO he asked her to empty her pockets and line them up one by one on the floor in front of her ???!!!

              I couldnt be ar*ed with that, if I was being robbed Id chuck it all into their hands or on the ground, not place it on the ground methodically!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Currerbell View Post
                SO he asked her to empty her pockets and line them up one by one on the floor in front of her ???!!!

                I couldnt be ar*ed with that, if I was being robbed Id chuck it all into their hands or on the ground, not place it on the ground methodically!
                ... perhaps not if the robber were clutching a knife in his hand, and you found yourself in a back yard with him blocking the only exit back through the house. I think I'd do what I was told, under such circumstances.

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                • #23
                  True...and I guess shouting for help wouldnt work as it would just be ignored and one would have their throats cut...oh, hang on, that happened didnt it?

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                  • #24
                    Hi ho

                    I know today one has to pay up front (thanks to Howard for that bit), but I wonder why one would not have had to do so in the East End circa 1888
                    I see th epoint. One could argue that whilst the man could run off with his money without paying......so could the woman. And a shrieking woman chasing a man for a few coppers would surely be less objectionable to the chaser than a man chasing a woman through the back streets for ..... his due rub of the relic?

                    So I could well understand why a man would say....not a chance luvvie, do the business first.

                    Because he had no chance of recovering his money or his bit of fun without a world of hassle if she decided to leg it.

                    p

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                    • #25
                      I am sure that a nasty piece of works like the ripper would have nicked any money because it was there to be nicked----nothing to do with any ruck with them,just because it felt like a good thing to do.

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                      • #26
                        Prostitutes in the LVP probably wouldn't kiss their clients' mouth and probably would ask for the money up front...both conditions that exist today.

                        The scene in "From Hell" where that zaftig little gal is getting the high hard one from due West up against the fence and then afterwards the big cruddy looking guy climaxes and the schlub tosses the coins down forcing her to genuflect and pick the coins up is undoubtedly the sequencing of a liasing in reverse order.

                        The reason why they would ask for the money up front is probably partly psychological. After just having had your way without having to pay a superannuated woman for some temporary jolly...you don't care if she drops dead. Sad to say,it sounds mean,an 'orrible thought no doubt...but nevertheless its closer to the truth than not. The chances are that a client will reconsider his obligation to pay the pross after his time with her. I mean, what is she going to do if he doesn't pay afterwards? Go call a policeman and say, "I just gave this guy the best 2 minutes of his life and he owes me!!" ?

                        Nah..prosses ain't in it for charity or shits and giggles. They have their tricks of the trade and one won't last long among their peers if they know one of their sister-prosses is giving "it" away for free.

                        It is after all the oldest profession.
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                        • #27
                          Daft question alert ---- why no kisses on mouths?

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by How Brown View Post
                            The chances are that a client will reconsider his obligation to pay the pross after his time with her. I mean, what is she going to do if he doesn't pay afterwards? Go call a policeman and say, "I just gave this guy the best 2 minutes of his life and he owes me!!" ?
                            I think that to envision it any other way is just needlessly complicating things. Why in God's name would anyone contort the Case to have Jack robbing, and then murdering??

                            I believe, BTW, that in Stride's case, she got whacked as they were making their way down to a more secluded place. Perhaps she balked at going further into the Yard, whatever, but no coins changed hands IMHO.

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                            • #29
                              ''I'll Poke Your EYE OUT, You- ''

                              Hi, Currerbell. It's a well-documented phenomenon that most prostitutes won't kiss their clients on the mouth...it is seen as 'too personal & intimate'. (Which gives you some idea of how they view their clients!)

                              As regards Admin's post about the Hatpins, I wish my stupid computer would let me post a live link... the Hatpin in that photo looks quite 20th C, maybe even a Reproduction. I'll look for another image for you. I have sold Antique Hatpins that look like Oedipus's worst nightmare...so incredibly long & sharp that they can poke you & draw blood just by handling them.

                              If our worshipful ADMIN can bring up a c.1890-1908 ''Merry Widow'' comic postcard-photo, you will see why! Hats got bigger & bigger, peaking in about 1908 with the fabled 'Merry Widow' millinery monstrosity several feet in diameter. Hatpins, being functional as well as decorative items, had to keep up in proportion. The kind of 'bonnet' one of the C5 wore would probably have been in the smaller, simpler, cheaper style called a 'toque', and might even have tied under the chin with ribbons, in which case it would not require a hatpin to help hold it in place.

                              I have to say, I find it hard to believe that a Whitechapel prostitute lacking undergarments, food, & a place to sleep owned a single hatpin or trinket of any value... the poor thing would have pawned it for food or booze. These women were in rags; they had no extraneous accessories. *The 'Jolly New Bonnet' is a mystery that bears investigating, in my opinion.

                              Tim, I don't think Ive ever heard the part about 'Suffragettes using Hatpins as weapons'' but I can tell you that cities like San Francisco had to pass LAWS regulating their length due to injuries suffered by customers on the jam-packed cable-cars!! Lets just say that giant hats & hatpins were not well suited to the modern world...they had virtually vanished by the end of WWI, when new hair & hat styles rendered them obsolete anyways.

                              **WACKO ALERT***Check out Ebay Seller 'Haunts4U'; she is selling what are purported to be Long Liz's Personal Hatpin, found by her dead body, & Annie Chapman's ring, ditto...both HAUNTED! [/B]
                              (Seller is on both US & UK EBay; Phil Hutchinson found her. She's a trip!)

                              Interesting discussion; I am still musing about Jack's payment methods. Archaic

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Archaic
                                If our worshipful ADMIN can bring up a c.1890-1908 ''Merry Widow'' comic postcard-photo, you will see why! Hats got bigger & bigger, peaking in about 1908 with the fabled 'Merry Widow' millinery monstrosity several feet in diameter.

                                http://www.oldpostcards.com/merrywidow.html

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