"Skewering The Ripperologists" Bad Women Podcast- Hallie Rubenhold

[Gary Barnett]

There was nothing more about the previously proposed exhumation of Mary Kelly in this episode, apart from an passing reference by Cornwell to the possibility of identifying the remains through DNA testing.

Evidently Jacob Levy is going to be discussed in the next (and final) episode.

Why would it have come as a surprise to her? What was she expecting? With the exception of the stubbornly elusive Mary Kelly, the source material available for the victims is far greater than exists for most East End women. I’m including contemporary press reports and police reports here. Did she unearth a wealth of primary source material in connection with her ‘Covent Garden Ladies’? I think not. The statement is not to be taken at face value, it’s her way of repeating her mantra that there is no evidence that the 5 were prostitutes.

All three of my grandkids covered the WM as part of their GCSE history curriculum and from what I saw, there was more about the social conditions of the period than there was the police investigation. Again it’s HR twisting the facts.

[Gary Barnett]

If Levy is discussed, HR will have finally abandoned her pretence of not being a Ripperologist - unless, of course, she can dress it up as yet another woke crusade.

[Chris Phillips]

Just to add two other things about that podcast.

(1) Rubenhold announced that a publisher of school textbooks in the UK had tweeted that they would be revising the description of all the Ripper victims as prostitutes in the light of her "groundbreaking" work.

(2) Towards the end, she actually seemed to be expressing enthusiasm for collaborative Internet-based research into True Crime. That was with reference to non-Ripper-related research. But I suppose it's not surprising, given the use she has made of research posted here and on Casebook in her book.

Talking of which, after listening to the last episode, I wrote to the website hosting these podcasts, Pushkin, about Pat's and my recent research into Elizabeth Weston Davies, in relation to the discussion of the exhumation proposal in that episode. But no response so far.

[Gary Barnett]

Chris,

Is the name of the textbook publisher given?

Perhaps they should be made aware of HR’s dubious methodologies before they rewrite history on the basis of her ‘groundbreaking’ work.

Gary

[Chris Phillips]

Chris,

Is the name of the textbook publisher given?

Perhaps they should be made aware of HR’s dubious methodologies before they rewrite history on the basis of her ‘groundbreaking’ work.

Gary

It's not given, but it's Hodder, and the thread on Twitter (from October) is here:

https://twitter.com/HodderHistory/status/1447871875422556165

As you'll see, a number of people (including Paul Begg and "Queen Mean") suggested they should check their facts before changing the textbooks. The publishers tweeted again two days later to say "Thank you for all your comments and questions. As part of our standard process we will ensure appropriate research and review when making any edits/amendments to the book."

[Gary Barnett]

It's not given, but it's Hodder, and the thread on Twitter (from October) is here:

https://twitter.com/HodderHistory/status/1447871875422556165

As you'll see, a number of people (including Paul Begg and "Queen Mean") suggested they should check their facts before changing the textbooks. The publishers tweeted again two days later to say "Thank you for all your comments and questions. As part of our standard process we will ensure appropriate research and review when making any edits/amendments to the book."

Thanks, Chris.

[Chris Phillips]

Despite the success of these podcasts, Hallie Rubenhold is "rather relieved to no longer have to take on the Ripperologists each week". Apparently she has been getting a hard time on social media:

https://inews.co.uk/news/i-get-trolled-for-revealing-jack-the-rippers-victims-werent-prostitutes-reveals-historian-hallie-rubenhold-1334501

I must admit I thought her favoured method of "taking on" Ripperologists was either to ignore them or remove their comments. Perhaps she has discovered that neither of those methods is effective if you don't have access to the relevant "delete" button.

But now she is about to take on "her next group of armchair detectives" - Crippenologists. She says Belle Elmore "has been literally demonised and victim-blamed for over 100 years for her own murder" [my emphasis]. I knew people with an interest in True Crime were deplorable, but it's news to me that they have the ability literally to transform murder victims into demons. No doubt all will be made clear when the publicity for the Crippen book hits the newsstands.

But it did occur to me that it might be funny if Rubenhold discovered that some Ripperologists also had an interest in the Crippen case ...

[D.J.Adams]

Cripperologists.

[Debra Arif]

But it did occur to me that it might be funny if Rubenhold discovered that some Ripperologists also had an interest in the Crippen case ...

I think she's probably aware already that Jonathan Menges, for example, has a big interest in the Crippen case. Jonathan was the person who first made me aware many years ago that Crippen's first wife, Charlotte, died in mysterious circumstances. We have several quite long Crippen threads on this site, which Hallie Rubenhold was a member of at one point.

[Chris Phillips]

I think she's probably aware already that Jonathan Menges, for example, has a big interest in the Crippen case. Jonathan was the person who first made me aware many years ago that Crippen's first wife, Charlotte, died in mysterious circumstances. We have several quite long Crippen threads on this site, which Hallie Rubenhold was a member of at one point.

I do remember the discussions, though thankfully I don't remember any demonising or victim-blaming. It will interesting to see what line she takes on the case. On the face of it, it doesn't seem like particularly promising ground for her.

[Chris Phillips]

I should have checked earlier, because the implication of that newspaper article was that the series of podcasts was complete. And the final episode, "The Madness of Jacob Levy", has indeed appeared now:

https://www.pushkin.fm/episode/e15-the-madness-of-jacob-levy/

Families of Ripper victims often suppressed the memories of their murdered loved ones - fearing the stigma of being related to supposed "prostitutes". And descendants of men accused of being the infamous killer have also had to endure seeing their ancestors’ reputations sullied.
We hear from a living relatives of Annie Chapman... and of Jacob Levy, a Whitechapel butcher whose appalling struggle with mental illness has caused unsympathetic observers to conclude that he was Jack the Ripper.

[Gary Barnett]

I should have checked earlier, because the implication of that newspaper article was that the series of podcasts was complete. And the final episode, "The Madness of Jacob Levy", has indeed appeared now:

https://www.pushkin.fm/episode/e15-the-madness-of-jacob-levy/

Families of Ripper victims often suppressed the memories of their murdered loved ones - fearing the stigma of being related to supposed "prostitutes". And descendants of men accused of being the infamous killer have also had to endure seeing their ancestors’ reputations sullied.
We hear from a living relatives of Annie Chapman... and of Jacob Levy, a Whitechapel butcher whose appalling struggle with mental illness has caused unsympathetic observers to conclude that he was Jack the Ripper.

Ah, the mental health card. I can’t bring myself to listen to this nonsense, but I would be surprised if Levy’s ethnicity isn’t also brought into play.

All Rubentroll has to do now is to pin global warming on Ripperologists and her work will be complete.

[Debra Arif]

I do remember the discussions, though thankfully I don't remember any demonising or victim-blaming. It will interesting to see what line she takes on the case. On the face of it, it doesn't seem like particularly promising ground for her.

Looking back on one thread- that certainly didn't happen here, quite the opposite for the majority of people who took part in the thread. Our criticism was mainly directed towards Trestrail et al.

[Chris Phillips]

Ah, the mental health card. I can’t bring myself to listen to this nonsense, but I would be surprised if Levy’s ethnicity isn’t also brought into play.

All Rubentroll has to do now is to pin global warming on Ripperologists and her work will be complete.

Having listened to the episode, I'd say there's not a huge amount of "Ripperologist-blaming" in it, either from Rubenhold or the great-great-granddaughter of Jacob Levy who is interviewed.

But I would also say that when someone makes wholesale use of somebody else's research, it's quite wrong not to acknowledge that fact, and not even to give any indication that the work being presented is not one's own.

[Lemonjelly]

You should read it. You'll already know all about the victims because much of the research was on here or Casebook or in Ripperologist, but the opening and concluding arguments are likely to be repeated in one form or another by the underinformed for years to come.

Thank you for the advice/recommendation. It's been purchased and added to the bookshelf. I'll post a review in the relevant section when I do get around to reading it (making my way through stephen kings dark tower series at the mo!)