"Skewering The Ripperologists" Bad Women Podcast- Hallie Rubenhold

[Gary Barnett]

Hi Gary!!
I know I’m not on here a lot, but I wanted to take the time to tell you that this was a very well-written letter to the journalist in question. I hope something comes of it.

There’s actually been a lot of work put out in the last year or two that’s really critical of the lens through which she conducted the research and wrote the book. Now she did try to walk some of that back and expand on it in the Bad Women podcast, and it’s been packaged as intersectional feminism. But I can 100% tell you without a doubt that it is not intersectional feminism. Her work is based on a lot of outdated views that are not reflective of current intersectional feminist thought. And the work and the way it’s been promoted hit so many of the points in the stuff I’m reading right now, it’s really disturbing.

Thanks, Linotte. I have a feeling the letter won’t make a blind bit of difference, but I thought it was worth a try. I don’t think there’s been a single example of a challenge to Rubenhold’s book or her characterisation of Ripperologists that has found its way into mainstream media. As you may know she refused to engage in any debate on Twitter, so we’re left with moaning about her antics among ourselves on here and, to a lesser extent, on Casebook.

[Paul]

Thanks, Linotte. I have a feeling the letter won’t make a blind bit of difference, but I thought it was worth a try. I don’t think there’s been a single example of a challenge to Rubenhold’s book or her characterisation of Ripperologists that has found its way into mainstream media. As you may know she refused to engage in any debate on Twitter, so we’re left with moaning about her antics among ourselves on here and, to a lesser extent, on Casebook.

As you predict, it probably won't make any difference, but it only takes one journalist to question Rubenhold's claims and look at what Ripper historians are saying, then the fallacy Rubenhold has created will begin to show the cracks. After all, all Ripper historians are saying is that Rubenhold has omitted all the evidence that runs counter to her theory, has peddled the trolling story to undermine those best able to judge her arguments, and has let it be believed that she researched the lives of the victims instead of lifting it from sites such as this. So I think we should keep this up. I, like Howard, don't care about Rubenhold, but I do care about the evidence, honesty, and good history. There are some standards we should strive to hold onto.

[Linotte]

Thanks, Linotte. I have a feeling the letter won’t make a blind bit of difference, but I thought it was worth a try. I don’t think there’s been a single example of a challenge to Rubenhold’s book or her characterisation of Ripperologists that has found its way into mainstream media. As you may know she refused to engage in any debate on Twitter, so we’re left with moaning about her antics among ourselves on here and, to a lesser extent, on Casebook.

All it really is, is a puff piece on how she’s scrapping her first business plan for Plan B. And all authors have a business plan. I have a business plan, but mine isn’t as involved and isn’t reliant on so many variables like hers probably was.

And something one of my intersectional feminist friends said in a conversation with me after reading the article: “Okay, but why is she splitting hairs here? What is SHE trying to gain by saying that they ‘weren’t prostitutes?’ To make them more sympathetic! They were murdered by a sick guy all the same.” So people are seeing it. It’s just taking time.

[Michael Banks]

How makes a valid point: where is this trolling happening?

On here, because we are questioning the Ballad Myth? Has Hallie’s entry into the field of Ripperology made it inappropriate to question the research/theories of authors who follow her lead, or minor celebrities who parrot her nonsense on daytime TV?

I’ve wondered about this point too Gary. I don’t do social media so I have no way of judging any comments that might or might not have been made except for Trevor’s impersonation of Bernard Manning of course. We know that from the outset she was demonising ripperologists so that she had an ideal ‘bad guy’ that she could play Joan Of Arc against and now she’s piling it on.

Suggestion:

Coudnt a Twitter account be created by JTRForums members and admin where the real story is told from the beginning (I’d suggest ‘Ripperology’ or ‘Ripperologist’ in the name so that it’s more findable?) . The agenda of demonising ripperologists - with examples. The ongoing wave of negative comments. Then the question of why she is so determined to prove that the victims didn’t engage in prostitution and had just bedded down for 40 winks before being killed. The uncritical reviewers who thankfully haven’t injured themselves whilst jumping on the bandwagon. Then go for the full evidence for the victims engaging in prostitution followed by a dismissal of the ludicrous idea of them being asleep. And of course the feminist point of view and not just HR’s version. You could link to the Petticoat Parley podcast too.

All statements posted could be written/researched/agreed upon by, I’d suggest, yourself, Chris, How, Paul, Debra, Linotte for example. Just factual, honest, fair minded statements. Wouldn’t that at least get the truth out there to some extent? I don’t know. Perhaps it’s a crap idea?

[Debra Arif]

I’ve wondered about this point too Gary. I don’t do social media so I have no way of judging any comments that might or might not have been made except for Trevor’s impersonation of Bernard Manning of course. We know that from the outset she was demonising ripperologists so that she had an ideal ‘bad guy’ that she could play Joan Of Arc against and now she’s piling it on.

Suggestion:

Coudnt a Twitter account be created by JTRForums members and admin where the real story is told from the beginning (I’d suggest ‘Ripperology’ or ‘Ripperologist’ in the name so that it’s more findable?) . The agenda of demonising ripperologists - with examples. The ongoing wave of negative comments. Then the question of why she is so determined to prove that the victims didn’t engage in prostitution and had just bedded down for 40 winks before being killed. The uncritical reviewers who thankfully haven’t injured themselves whilst jumping on the bandwagon. Then go for the full evidence for the victims engaging in prostitution followed by a dismissal of the ludicrous idea of them being asleep. And of course the feminist point of view and not just HR’s version. You could link to the Petticoat Parley podcast too.

All statements posted could be written/researched/agreed upon by, I’d suggest, yourself, Chris, How, Paul, Debra, Linotte for example. Just factual, honest, fair minded statements. Wouldn’t that at least get the truth out there to some extent? I don’t know. Perhaps it’s a crap idea?

That's an interesting idea and something I'd thought about too Michael but the biggest obstacle would be the amount of time it would take to build up any followers and get noticed as a fair few 'Ripperologists' do have Twitter accounts and it seems to be a drop in the ocean when they make any comment about what's been going on.
If only there was a 'celebrity' Ripperologist out there who already had millions of followers!

[Gary Barnett]

That's an interesting idea and something I'd thought about too Michael but the biggest obstacle would be the amount of time it would take to build up any followers and get noticed as a fair few 'Ripperologists' do have Twitter accounts and it seems to be a drop in the ocean when they make any comment about what's been going on.
If only there was a 'celebrity' Ripperologist out there who already had millions of followers!

Trevor’s a bit of a celeb, isn’t he? 😂

[Chris Phillips]

Trevor’s a bit of a celeb, isn’t he? 😂

"There are Trevors all around us". - H. Rubenhold.

[Linotte]

I’ve wondered about this point too Gary. I don’t do social media so I have no way of judging any comments that might or might not have been made except for Trevor’s impersonation of Bernard Manning of course. We know that from the outset she was demonising ripperologists so that she had an ideal ‘bad guy’ that she could play Joan Of Arc against and now she’s piling it on.

Suggestion:

Coudnt a Twitter account be created by JTRForums members and admin where the real story is told from the beginning (I’d suggest ‘Ripperology’ or ‘Ripperologist’ in the name so that it’s more findable?) . The agenda of demonising ripperologists - with examples. The ongoing wave of negative comments. Then the question of why she is so determined to prove that the victims didn’t engage in prostitution and had just bedded down for 40 winks before being killed. The uncritical reviewers who thankfully haven’t injured themselves whilst jumping on the bandwagon. Then go for the full evidence for the victims engaging in prostitution followed by a dismissal of the ludicrous idea of them being asleep. And of course the feminist point of view and not just HR’s version. You could link to the Petticoat Parley podcast too.

All statements posted could be written/researched/agreed upon by, I’d suggest, yourself, Chris, How, Paul, Debra, Linotte for example. Just factual, honest, fair minded statements. Wouldn’t that at least get the truth out there to some extent? I don’t know. Perhaps it’s a crap idea?

There’s a blog in development that will be handling the case from a true intersectional feminist perspective. They have a Twitter up already and will be getting their other social media together very, very soon. Posts start very, very soon. Don’t ask how I know.

[Paul]

Trevor’s a bit of a celeb, isn’t he? 😂

I just called you a not very nice name. I read the above whilst swallowing a mouthful of tea. I won't go into details...

[Michael Banks]

That's an interesting idea and something I'd thought about too Michael but the biggest obstacle would be the amount of time it would take to build up any followers and get noticed as a fair few 'Ripperologists' do have Twitter accounts and it seems to be a drop in the ocean when they make any comment about what's been going on.
If only there was a 'celebrity' Ripperologist out there who already had millions of followers!

One who’s initials are PB for example Debra?

[Michael Banks]

There’s a blog in development that will be handling the case from a true intersectional feminist perspective. They have a Twitter up already and will be getting their other social media together very, very soon. Posts start very, very soon. Don’t ask how I know.

That’s good news Linotte.

[Gary Barnett]

I just called you a not very nice name. I read the above whilst swallowing a mouthful of tea. I won't go into details...

Sorry!

He’s got his own hash tag: #readthebookTrevor. That’s like having an ‘ology’, isn’t it?

I’m not totally sure what a hash tag is, to be honest, but perhaps HR should be awarded this one:

#readthebibliographyHallie.

[Gary Barnett]

There’s a blog in development that will be handling the case from a true intersectional feminist perspective. They have a Twitter up already and will be getting their other social media together very, very soon. Posts start very, very soon. Don’t ask how I know.

That will be interesting, Linotte. It may come as no surprise that I had to Google intersectional feminism.

[Debra Arif]

One who’s initials are PB for example Debra?

I didn't know Pierce Brosnan was a Ripperologist
I think most 'Ripperologists' will be the first to admit that they don't have enough Twitter followers to make an impact. Jonathan Menges has been making a great effort though, to name one.

[Gary Barnett]

I didn't know Pierce Brosnan was a Ripperologist
I think most 'Ripperologists' will be the first to admit that they don't have enough Twitter followers to make an impact. Jonathan Menges has been making a great effort though, to name one.

I have JM as a Facebook friend, but I rarely use Twitter. Perhaps I’ll look him up to see what’s occurring.