"Skewering The Ripperologists" Bad Women Podcast- Hallie Rubenhold

[Gary Barnett]

What other things were any of the murder victims in the Whitechapel Murders series known for ?



Another day, another idiot.

Kate Eddowes was a famous ballad writer/performer don’t forget.

[Howard Brown]

What other things were any of the murder victims in the Whitechapel Murders series known for ?



Another day, another idiot.

[Chris Phillips]

There is a two-part podcast featuring Hallie Rubenhold entitled "Winter Distraction: The Victims of Jack the Ripper" in a series called "Jensen and Holes: The Murder Squad". I haven't listened to it:

https://thepodcastplayground.com/podcast/winter-distraction-the-victims-of-jack-the-ripper-with-hallie-rubenhold-part-1/

https://thepodcastplayground.com/podcast/winter-distraction-the-victims-of-jack-the-ripper-with-hallie-rubenhold-part-2/

[Gary Barnett]

Oh! Maybe I should have defined it. That’s on me. Here’s a good definition of it, from a USA Today article: “If feminism is advocating for women's rights and equality between the sexes, intersectional feminism is the understanding of how women's overlapping identities — including race, class, ethnicity, religion and sexual orientation — impact the way they experience oppression and discrimination.” Article linked below.

With that being said, I believe The Five was researched and written solely from HR’s point of view, as a white, middle- to upper-middle-class woman with a lot of education. She got into how class affected the C5 a little bit, but it was mostly about how they were oppressed because of their gender. I’ve seen the perspective she uses called a lot of things, but I’m going to go with the white bourgeois feminist perspective for now. So yes, she did mention that they were affected by poverty and homelessness, but she really failed to fully examine how these circumstances defined their minute-by-minute, day-to-day decisions that we so often take for granted. And I believe she avoided a lot of that because she knew that this would poke holes in her claims. She also failed to examine how conditions of British rule in Ireland displaced a lot of Irish families and very likely affected Mary Kelly’s life, if we’re going by MJK’s “I’m from Ireland” narrative.

As a side note, there’s been a lot of academic work done on unhoused women in the C5’s general demographic over the past few years that really helps provide context as to how they lived their lives. I’m still sifting through that.

I know this is a little long-winded. Opinions. I have lots of them.

Thanks, Linotte.

[Linotte]

That will be interesting, Linotte. It may come as no surprise that I had to Google intersectional feminism.

Oh! Maybe I should have defined it. That’s on me. Here’s a good definition of it, from a USA Today article: “If feminism is advocating for women's rights and equality between the sexes, intersectional feminism is the understanding of how women's overlapping identities — including race, class, ethnicity, religion and sexual orientation — impact the way they experience oppression and discrimination.” Article linked below.

With that being said, I believe The Five was researched and written solely from HR’s point of view, as a white, middle- to upper-middle-class woman with a lot of education. She got into how class affected the C5 a little bit, but it was mostly about how they were oppressed because of their gender. I’ve seen the perspective she uses called a lot of things, but I’m going to go with the white bourgeois feminist perspective for now. So yes, she did mention that they were affected by poverty and homelessness, but she really failed to fully examine how these circumstances defined their minute-by-minute, day-to-day decisions that we so often take for granted. And I believe she avoided a lot of that because she knew that this would poke holes in her claims. She also failed to examine how conditions of British rule in Ireland displaced a lot of Irish families and very likely affected Mary Kelly’s life, if we’re going by MJK’s “I’m from Ireland” narrative.

As a side note, there’s been a lot of academic work done on unhoused women in the C5’s general demographic over the past few years that really helps provide context as to how they lived their lives. I’m still sifting through that.

I know this is a little long-winded. Opinions. I have lots of them.

[Michael Banks]

To be honest I think that history is now a subject that’s there to be manipulated toward an agenda. Just look at all the nonsense and lies that have been written about Mary Seacole for example. Most of the history books written so far will be on a bonfire in the near future to be replaced books that are more acceptable to the current agenda. It’s depressing stuff.

[Michael Banks]

The sad thing is, Michael, that none of us has the necessary academic or scholarly clout. Martin Fido might have done, but, alas... Drew wrote a fair and balanced review of her book, but her response was as we'd now expect. And Rubenhold doesn't worry about misrepresenting anything you say - hence her critics are trolls, she trolled because she revealed that the victims weren't prostitutes, or that Ripperologists compared her to a Holocaust denier... And to many people Ripperologists are held in the same high esteem as those folk who claim to have been abducted by aliens or believe the Royal Family are lizard people from outer space.

Sad is the right word Paul. Orwellian is another that comes to mind when we see how only one ‘version’ gets put before readers with little or no knowledge of the case.

[Paul]

Now I’m hearing “the name’s Begg. Paul Begg.”

Although, “I’ll have a cup of tea shaken but not stirred,” doesn’t have the same ring to it.

The sad thing is, Michael, that none of us has the necessary academic or scholarly clout. Martin Fido might have done, but, alas... Drew wrote a fair and balanced review of her book, but her response was as we'd now expect. And Rubenhold doesn't worry about misrepresenting anything you say - hence her critics are trolls, she trolled because she revealed that the victims weren't prostitutes, or that Ripperologists compared her to a Holocaust denier... And to many people Ripperologists are held in the same high esteem as those folk who claim to have been abducted by aliens or believe the Royal Family are lizard people from outer space.

[Debra Arif]

Point of clarification: Jonathan has been doing this on the Rippercast Twitter account, not his personal one.

Thanks, Linotte.

[Gary Barnett]

Point of clarification: Jonathan has been doing this on the Rippercast Twitter account, not his personal one.

Thanks, Linotte. I’ve added a small Tweet to the Rippercast account.

[Linotte]

I've never used Twitter either but I recall JM and Ally Ryder are both users who have tried to set the record straight on there. I'm not able to check out tweets fully though because I don't have an account.

Point of clarification: Jonathan has been doing this on the Rippercast Twitter account, not his personal one.

[Michael Banks]

I didn't know Pierce Brosnan was a Ripperologist
I think most 'Ripperologists' will be the first to admit that they don't have enough Twitter followers to make an impact. Jonathan Menges has been making a great effort though, to name one.

Now I’m hearing “the name’s Begg. Paul Begg.”

Although, “I’ll have a cup of tea shaken but not stirred,” doesn’t have the same ring to it.

[Debra Arif]

I have JM as a Facebook friend, but I rarely use Twitter. Perhaps I’ll look him up to see what’s occurring.

I've never used Twitter either but I recall JM and Ally Ryder are both users who have tried to set the record straight on there. I'm not able to check out tweets fully though because I don't have an account.

[Gary Barnett]

I didn't know Pierce Brosnan was a Ripperologist
I think most 'Ripperologists' will be the first to admit that they don't have enough Twitter followers to make an impact. Jonathan Menges has been making a great effort though, to name one.

I have JM as a Facebook friend, but I rarely use Twitter. Perhaps I’ll look him up to see what’s occurring.

[Debra Arif]

One who’s initials are PB for example Debra?

I didn't know Pierce Brosnan was a Ripperologist
I think most 'Ripperologists' will be the first to admit that they don't have enough Twitter followers to make an impact. Jonathan Menges has been making a great effort though, to name one.