Thomas Fogarty

[Gary Barnett]

Let us not forget Foggy's expertise with a blunt instrument:

[Anna Morris]

I am sure someone else has thought of this but.... Pearly Poll made ID of the soldiers difficult at best. The possibilities of what was going on in her head are endless. But what are the chances she led investigators of the Martha Tabram murder astray because she knew or suspected her future husband did it?

[Gary Barnett]

I am sure someone else has thought of this but.... Pearly Poll made ID of the soldiers difficult at best. The possibilities of what was going on in her head are endless. But what are the chances she led investigators of the Martha Tabram murder astray because she knew or suspected her future husband did it?

That's the way I'm thinking, Anna.

We can't be sure, though, that Poll and Foggy were close enough in Aug., 1888 that she would have perjured herself on his behalf.

[Gary Barnett]

Poll identified the woman she called 'Emma', threw the guardsmen into the mix, and then did a runner from her lodging house, telling her cronies that she was going to drown herself.

The story she told the police involved her and Martha being entertained up and down the Whitechapel Road for nearly two hours by the soldiers. Not very plausible to my mind, but a clever device in case anyone came along who spotted Martha in one pub or another in the area.

[Gary Barnett]

Eh? What about Kate's kidney?

I have a feeling that I've missed the subtlety of your comment, Rob.
Does Kate and Sidney pie come into it in some way?

[Anna Morris]

Poll identified the woman she called 'Emma', threw the guardsmen into the mix, and then did a runner from her lodging house, telling her cronies that she was going to drown herself.

The story she told the police involved her and Martha being entertained up and down the Whitechapel Road for nearly two hours by the soldiers. Not very plausible to my mind, but a clever device in case anyone came along who spotted Martha in one pub or another in the area.

Poll's story falls apart in so many ways. And do we really see a presumably somewhat young soldier spending a great deal of time with Martha? Poll mucked up the soldier ID every way she could. For a long time I thought she was covering for actual soldiers.

Something need not be perjury exactly if a person wishes something to be so or not so. Perhaps she shared every turn in the story that would lead investigators away from something she thought of but had no proof one way or the other.

[Debra Arif]

The specifics of the attack?

God forbid that a subject should ever be covered more than once in Ripperland.��



ANOTHER WOMAN STABBED

On Saturday a man suddenly attacked a woman in the Spitalfields Market while she was walking through. After felling her to the ground with a blow he began kicking her and pulled out a knife. Some people who had collected, having the terrible tragedy that had brought them there still fresh in their minds, on seeing the knife raised such piercing shrieks of "Murder!" that they reached the crowds in Hanbury Street. There was at once a rush for Commercial Street, where the markets are situate, as it was stated by some that there was another murder, and by others that the murderer has been arrested. Seeing the immense crowd swarming around him, the man who was the cause of the alarm made more furious efforts to reach the woman, from whom he had been separated by some persons who had interfered on her behalf. He, however, threw these on one side, fell upon the woman, knife in hand, and inflicted various stabs on her head, cut her forehead, neck and fingers before he was again pulled off. When he was again pulled off the woman lay motionless - the immense crowd took up the cry of "Murder", and the people who were on the streets raised cries of "Lynch him!" At this juncture the police arrived, arrested the man, and after a while had the woman conveyed to the Police Station in Commercial street, where she was examined by the divisional surgeon. She was found to be suffering from several wounds, but none of them were considered dangerous. She was subsequently removed to the London Hospital, where she was detained as an in-patient. Her assailant is described as a blind man who sells lace in the streets, and whom she lead about from place to place. The blind man is described as having a most ungovernable temper, and he was seen whilst the woman was leading him along to stab her several times in the neck. The affair occurred mid-way between Buck's row and Hanbury street, where the last two horrible murders have been committed.



If the attack had taken place on a tenement landing in the middle of the night, I wonder how different the result would have been from that on Martha Tabram.

I was just asking so that I could refresh my memory if we had discussed it before was all.

[Gary Barnett]

I was just asking so that I could refresh my memory if we had discussed it before was all.

Sorry, Debs.

I don't recall making a comparison between the injuries or the weapon used, but my memory's not very reliable these days.

Whacked over the head and repeatedly stabbed with a small knife in both cases it would seem. In addition in Tabram's case there is the coup de grace administered with a longer bladed instrument and the suggestion of strangling.

I've just been rereading TBHM and Tom considers that four weapons may have been used on Martha: two knives, a blunt instrument and an arm used to garrotte her, although he makes a good case for the garrotting not having happened. This leads him to consider that there may have been more than one assailant. But I think a homeless wood carver who carried a stout stick might have had all those weapons about him.

[Robert Linford]

Hi Gary


The kldney is a difficult organ to locate, but I suppose you could argue he came upon it by chance.


Is Foggy supposed to have perpetrated these murders and made good his escape all on his own?

[Gary Barnett]

Hi Gary


The kldney is a difficult organ to locate, but I suppose you could argue he came upon it by chance.


Is Foggy supposed to have perpetrated these murders and made good his escape all on his own?

I think he's worth considering for Tabram - just Tabram. There's nothing about her injuries, inflicted on a dark landing, that would preclude her killer being a blind man is there?

[Robert Linford]

Just Tabram? He could have done that one, yes.

[Gary Barnett]

I've heard it argued that the savagery of Tabram's murder being on a level so far above the run of the mill domestic and criminal violence of the East End warrants her being considered as a possible Ripper victim. That and the location of the attack.

[Robert Linford]

Well I believe that Abberline and Anderson thought her one of Jack's.

[Gary Barnett]

Just Tabram? He could have done that one, yes.

That's the only one that involved his wife-to-be giving rather unconvincing evidence to the police. And the one that was uncannily echoed by the attack in/near Spitalfields market a few weeks later - committed by a blind hawker of 'ungovernable temper'.

Of course, there's no blood evidence, use of false names or gory poetry to nail him.

[Gary Barnett]

Well I believe that Abberline and Anderson thought her one of Jack's.

On what basis, do we know?