The Complete A To Z :The 2010 Edition

[Stan Reid]

I got a Barnes & Noble gift card for my birthday so I'm waiting for the sea turtle who's swimming them to the U.S.

[Stan Reid]

Shelly the sea turtle finally completed her swim across the Atlantic and I received my new A-Z today! Thanks Shelly. Looks good!

[Howard Brown]

Bump Up

[Howard Brown]

Its been a quarter of a year since this thread had a bump.

Anyone with further observations on the A to Z since the last time, please speak up.

Thank you.

[Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO]

Dave James' talk at Cardiff convinced me that there were only 3 vigilance committees, whereas the A-Z lists 6

I am also convinced that Bachert was associated with the Working Men's Vigilance Committee rather than any other

I hope Dave gets around to revealing further information about the organisers of this committee who appear at minimum a bit "dodgy"

[Chris G.]

Dave James' talk at Cardiff convinced me that there were only 3 vigilance committees, whereas the A-Z lists 6

I am also convinced that Bachert was associated with the Working Men's Vigilance Committee rather than any other

I hope Dave gets around to revealing further information about the organisers of this committee who appear at minimum a bit "dodgy"

Hello Nemo

I did a brief search of the press reports on Casebook under "Lusk" and "Vigilance" and they seem to say he was head of the "Whitechapel Vigilance Committee" in 1888. Do the same thing with Bachert and they say he was head of the "Whitechapel Vigilance Committee" in 1889. So it does seem to be the same group a year later, if a reorganized group conceivably. I have though seen Lusk's organization called either the Mile End or Spitalfields Vigilance Committee, so I think that is part of the confusion.

All the best

Chris

[Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO]

Thanks Chris

I know Dave hasn't definitely linked Bachert with the WMVC but the circumstantial evidence makes it very likely

The WMVC had the Three Tuns as a front and was run from the Trafalgar Temperance Hotel

The mistakes made in the press in reference to the VCs caused the errors in naming and identifying them

Unfortunately, I don't think Dave's talk was filmed - not sure about that

Hopefully it was and you will get to hear it sometime

[Dave James]

Hi Chris, Nemo,

I'll try to explain my thinking regarding Albert and the VC'. Earlier I posted my conclusions regarding the Jewish VC, as being a newspaper error, based on the fact that the Whitechapel VC had a large number of Jewish members, and was not, in fact, a sperate entity.

There is no evidence that I've found so far, to show Backert had any connection to the Whitechapel VC. I think that this is the sequence of events:
Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper, dated 21st October:

“Yesterday Mr G Lusk, the chairman of the Vigilance committee constituted to assist in the discovery of the murderer of the unfortunates in East London, sent in his resignation, assigning as the reason the need of absolute rest, which he felt to be necessary after the worry and anxiety and horror he has experienced during the past few days. The treasurer and secretary have also announced their intention of resigning, on account of the lack of moral and material support they had experienced during their philanthropic efforts to benefit their fellow citizens.”

Mr Lusk and Mr Aarons however, do show up after Miller's court, and a Mr Vanderhout attends the Kelly inquest, representing the VC. However, what I think happened is that the original committee folded but after the Kelly murder, Reynold's Newspaper of 11th November ran an article which stated:
“The fresh atrocity has induced a citizen to come forward with further proffers of assistance, and if this is forthcoming in adequate amount, several of the leading members of the committee, in an informal meeting last night, expressed their willingness to continue the enquiry. Mr Lusk, the chairman, in company with Mr Aarons, the treasurer, spent several hours yesterday near the spot in the investigation of the new crime.”

We also know that at this time, the Spitalfields VC started up at the Paul's Head, Crispin St. This was headed by a Mr Cohen, who I believe was also a member of Mr Lusk's group. We also know from news reports who the leading lights of the new committee were.

Mr Cohen (Chairman) Mr. J. A. Cohen, the proprietor of the "Paul's Head" Tavern, Crispin-street, Spitalfields, a gentleman who has taken an active part in the organisation of the Vigilance Association. (Morning Advertiser - 15 November 1888).
Mr. Baram, the president of the committee? (Morning Advertiser - 15 November 1888)
Mr Shead – Possibly William Shead Wholesale grocer , 186 Brick Lane (sometimes referred to as Mr Stead.)
Mr Van Gelder (Hon Sec) Isaac Van Gelder – Cigar Mfg, 114 Cannon St Road
Mr George Evans – [possibly an Undertaker of 15, High St Stepney.]
Mr M Martin – Nothing known as yet

As late as mid August 1898, this committee was still in operation, with the same members. Absolutely no mention of Bachert amongst them.
However, as I hope I showed last year on Roy Corduroy's Trafalgar Temperance Hotel thread, there is a link between the Bachert and the organisers of the Workingmen's VC, so it is more likely that this was the committee he eventually became involved with. As I said to Nemo, I think any support for this idea is more likely to be found in books about the early Labour movement and unions rather than in crime files, and that is the area I'm now looking into.

[Monty]

There were more than 3 Nemo.

Monty

Dave James' talk at Cardiff convinced me that there were only 3 vigilance committees, whereas the A-Z lists 6

I am also convinced that Bachert was associated with the Working Men's Vigilance Committee rather than any other

I hope Dave gets around to revealing further information about the organisers of this committee who appear at minimum a bit "dodgy"

[Dave James]

Hi Monty,

Reading between the lines of news reports, I think that the committees were the St Jude's, the Whitechapel which morphed into the Spitalfields (Whitechapel redux if you like - LOL) and the Workingman's. The report of a City VC, I believe is erroneous, and was in fact the organisers of the Workingmen's meeting with solicitors at Leadenhall House, to arrange legal details, bank account etc, and the so called Jewish VC never existed.

[Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO]

Thanks for the comment Monty

I'm more than prepared to be convinced of that

[Dave James]

Hi all,

Could I suggest that if anyone is interested, we move this to the Albert thread or the Trafalager Hotel thread, rather than the current thread, and then continue?