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  • Millers Court Residents, 1888

    Hi all,

    I could well have missed something here, but have we ever had a definitive list of the residents of Millers Court in and around November 1888? If anyone could direct me to one, that would be great.

    Yours,

    Trevor.

  • #2
    Trev:

    No sir, we don't....and its surprising we haven't had a thread with those names.
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    • #3
      Well then, I think it's high time we started trying to collate one then, Mr Brown, don't you! I shall get on it forthwith, although I very much doubt I shall manage it 'all by myseeeeeelf....'.

      Roll up, roll up people.

      Comment


      • #4
        Trevor:
        I was reading Paul Begg's "The Facts" last night...the section on Kelly ( intrigued by recent remarks made by Wicker Man regarding Joseph Isaacs...)...and saw several of the people with addresses given.
        I'm off to read now...so I'll put some together for the thread.
        Thanks again for bringing this up, Trevor...its about time we had a thread on the Court people.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
          Thanks again for bringing this up, Trevor...its about time we had a thread on the Court people.
          I completely agree, How, and look forward to the fruits of your labour.

          Then we can all start arguing about where in the court they lived!

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          • #6
            There are definitely threads out there with plans of Millers Court and which residents lived there.

            I`ve seen some Millers Court residents listed in the infirmary records for 88.

            If I remember correctly, there were a few empty rooms.

            Has a thread search been undertaken?

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            • #7
              Just a quickie-
              I noticed these two in the 1888 Spitalfields electoral register and saved their details for future reference,so just chucking them in. There is no list for 89 to check if they were then ,which would mean they were definitely there in 88.
              Possibles for being here in 88 anyway.

              Duncan MacAllen 2 Miller's Court
              John Allcock 7 Miller's Court

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              • #8
                You're probably right Jon....I recall Nemo ( for one ) had posted something along those lines...

                Debs...thanks for the names of those two people. Could the Keyler's have moved in after MacAllen ?
                XXX

                Here's a really brief list before I split....odd number apartments being on the ground floor, even numbered above.

                Don't know where to put Catherine Pickett yet.

                #1- Julia Venturney
                #1- Harry Owen
                #2- Mr. & Mrs. Keyler...Sarah Lewis visits them on night in question
                #3- A market porter....can't find name yet.
                #5- Mary Ann Cox
                #7- John Allcock (courtesy Debs)
                #13- Mary Kelly
                #20- Elizabeth Prater
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                • #9
                  A couple more courtesy of a Dr Hopper/Casebook:

                  1 – Julia Venturnay and Harry Owen
                  2 – Mr & Mrs Keyler, Sarah Lewis (visitor)
                  3 – Unknown – Male Market Porter
                  4 – Unknown
                  5 – Mary Ann Cox
                  6 – Unknown
                  7 – John Clark
                  8 – Elizabeth Bushman
                  9 – Unknown
                  10 – Unknown
                  11 – Unknown
                  12 – Unknown
                  13 – Mary Kelly and Joseph Barnett

                  http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5254

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                  • #10
                    Edited to add in Jon and How's excellent work which popped up whilst I was busy typing!

                    Jon,

                    Apologies if I have missed an existing thread that ties all this info together, I may well have, as I acknowledged in my opening post. However, the ones I have seen from time to time tend to appear a little disjointed, and as How seems to agree that there is no definitive list, that is good enough for me for now.

                    Debs,

                    Thanks for that. So, so far and to the best of my knowledge we have:

                    No. 1. Julia Venturney, Harry Owen
                    No. 2. Mrs Keeler/ Keyler (as per Sarah Lewis), apparently living with a Mr Keeler/ Keyler
                    (How)
                    No. 3. Unknown male market porter
                    (How/ Jon)
                    No. 5. Mary Ann Cox
                    No. 7. John Clarke
                    (Jon)/ John Allcock (Debs) - I must admit I am rather disappointed if it turns out that Mr Allcock was not present at the crucial time, as I was starting to rather fancy he might be a husband to Lizzie Albrook (not a million miles from Allcock, after all).
                    No. 8. Elizabeth Bushman (Jon)
                    No 20. Elizabeth Prater
                    No. ?. Lizzie Albrook
                    No. ?. Catherine Pickett, 'Dave'


                    As per Kit Watkins, we also have -

                    No. ? 'Lottie', who was apparently living in MJK's old room in 1892, but claimed to have been living elsewhere in Millers Court in 1888.

                    And as per various press reports (ie. the Pall Mall Gazette, 10 Nov 1888) we have 'a woman living opposite' MJK who appears to have been the major source for the version of the story which has her singing 'Sweet Violets' rather than 'Only a Violet...'; this same woman would appear to be the one expanded on in 'The History of the Whitechapel Murders' by Richard Fox, where she is also named Mary and would appear to be living with a young, red-haired girl named Kate. For now I will use the 'name' given to her by Fox:

                    ? No. ?. 'Mary Ann's Pal'

                    Of course, this could be the mysterious Mrs Keeler, or alternatively 'Lottie' under another name (who according to her account as given to Watkins also heard the singing).

                    If we go further down the 'people being known by many different names' route, you could even argue a case that this is Mary Ann Cox (who according to Daniel Farson's interview with an alleged niece of Cox, did have a young child in 1888, and who of course did hear singing - the detail about being a friend of MJK's would seem erroneous in this case, given the time they knew each other, but may well have been an exaggeration for the sake of storytelling), Pickett (who also heard singing), or even Elizabeth Prater (although she later mentioned singing to Kit Watkins though, this seems unlikely - as we know she wasn't mentioning it in 1888, when these accounts date from). It can't be Venturney, who denied hearing any singing; at a push I guess it could be Albrook, but I feel it is more likely to have been a.n.other resident in MC whom we have not yet named. The fact that Cox in particular is most often quoted as giving the song MJK was singing as 'Only a Violet...' is also problematic in trying to shoehorn the two accounts together.

                    And possibly there in November 1888-

                    No. 2. Duncan MacAllen (if he was there in Nov 1888, presumably this makes him a partner of Mrs Keeler?)
                    No 7. John Allcock (also see above).

                    Farson's aforementioned interview also mentions a 'Mrs Storey' who apparently used to visit MJK in her room regularly and so may well be implied to also have been a resident of Millers Court, but seeing as the tale then develops to Mrs Storey and Cox finding her body instead of Thomas Bowyer, perhaps all details should be treated with caution!

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                    • #11
                      i found this old post I did in my notes

                      chris
                      19th January 2008, 12:48 AM
                      I have started a separate thread with details of Mary Cluley, a prostitute living in Millers Court very shortly after the Kelly murder.
                      Below are details of two other Millers Court residents in the Infirmary shortly after Kelly's death. The surname of the first is hard to decipher and any alternative readings would be welcome. (see images below)

                      Millers Court
                      Whitechapel Infirmary Admissions
                      3 Feb 1889
                      Thomas Gauven?
                      Aged 22
                      6 Millers Court
                      Single
                      Shoeblack
                      Cause: Phthisis
                      Discharged: 22 Feb 1889
                      Dead

                      9 Feb 1889
                      Henry Hemslow
                      Aged 40
                      11 Millers Court
                      Married
                      Porter
                      Cause: Debility
                      Discharged: 18 Feb 1889

                      The full recovered thread is at
                      http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=64

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Millers Court Residents in 1891

                        http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4921/5963.html

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                        • #13
                          13 Millers Court after 1888

                          http://forum.casebook.org/archive/index.php/t-701.html

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                          • #14
                            Dorset Street Ripper Residents
                            Jon Guy's list

                            http://forum.casebook.org/archive/index.php/t-2721.html

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                            • #15
                              The fullest list I could find in my notes:-
                              Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 9:55 am:
                              Chris Scott

                              To give complete info, here are the residents details for Millers Court for 1871, 1881 and 1891:

                              Miller's Court
                              1871 Census

                              No 6
                              Isaac Hyams aged 32 - Tailor
                              Sarah Hyams aged 36 - Tailor
                              Children:
                              Ester aged 20 - Cap maker
                              Anna aged 16 - Tailoress
                              Son aged 10 (name illegible)
                              Jacob aged 6
                              Leah aged 1

                              Joseph Davis aged 69 - General Dealer
                              Esther Davis aged 50
                              Child:
                              Isaac Davis aged 12 - Cigar Maker

                              No 5
                              Morris Browne aged 40 - Glazier
                              Caoline Browne aged 30
                              Children:
                              Rebecca aged 7
                              Sarah aged 4
                              Davis aged 6 months

                              No 4
                              Abraham Levy aged 23 - Shoemaker
                              Rachel Levy aged 23
                              Children:
                              Samuel aged 3
                              Lodgers:
                              Rosenberg Solomon aged 20 - Cigar maker
                              Davis Solomon aged 23 - Cigar maker
                              Mark Solomon aged 34 - Cogar maker

                              No 3
                              Abraham Shilling Dycke aged 34 - Glazier
                              Sarah Dycke aged 35
                              Children:
                              Isreal aged 10
                              Woolf aged 1
                              Jacob aged 1
                              Daughter aged 5 (name illegible)
                              Lodger:
                              Samuels aged 20 - Glazier

                              No 2
                              James Bernstein aged 45 - Tailor
                              Wife aged 26 (name illegible)
                              Children:
                              Betsy aged 17 - Hatmaker
                              Sarah aged 1
                              Visitor:
                              Jacob Marks aged 21- Boot finisher

                              Soloman Black aged 40 - Glazier
                              Rebecca Black aged 32
                              Children:
                              Rachel aged 15
                              Leah aged 12
                              Sarah aged 0
                              Jacob aged 1

                              No 1
                              Morris Freedman aged 26 - Boot finisher
                              Sarah Freedman aged 24
                              Children:
                              Rebecca aged 6
                              Louis aged 2

                              27 Dorset Street
                              Sarah Phillip aged 39 - Widow - Washerwoman
                              Children:
                              Joanna (?) aged 10 - Coat maker
                              Betsy aged 16 - Coat maker
                              Mary aged 14 - Coat maker

                              Abraham Coplin aged 29 - Finisher
                              Wife (unnamed) aged 27

                              Abraham Richardson aged 26 - Finisher
                              Sarah Richardson aged 23 - Finisher
                              Children:
                              Myer aged 2 (Daughter)
                              Mariam Barnett aged 14 - Manager Chandlers

                              Myers Kay aged 30 - Boot finisher
                              Annie Kay aged 26 - Boot finisher
                              Brother:
                              Abraham Kay aged 20 - Coat presser

                              Millers Court 1881

                              No 6
                              Edward Tagg (Head) aged 36 born Clerkenwell Glass Blower
                              Sarah A (Wife) aged 36 born Dublin
                              Cicilia (daughter) aged 16 born Camberwell
                              Thomas (son) aged 15 born Blackfriars

                              Frederick Smith (Head) aged 41 born Clerkenwell Goldbeater
                              Ellen (wife) aged 38 born Clerkenwell Laundress

                              No 5
                              Elizabeth James (head) aged 36 born Trent Needlewoman
                              Alfred B Knight (other) aged 3 months born Spitalfields

                              Cornelius Hoahs (Head) aged 23 born Spitalfields Hawker
                              Agnes (wife) aged 21 born Spitalfields

                              No 4
                              Eliza Carlsin (head) aged 40 born Dublin widowed
                              Kate (daughter) aged 12 born Spitalfields
                              Charles James (son) aged 10 months born Spitalfields

                              Lawrence McDonald (head) aged 22 born Bethnal Green Labourer in Gas Factory
                              Sarah (wife) aged 27 born Kings Cross

                              No 3
                              Barney Lipman (head) aged 21 born Middlesex Fish porter
                              Sophia Palmer (other) aged 27 born Cambridge
                              Thomas Carey (other) age 27 born Bromley Labourer
                              Anne Shay (other) aged 20 born India
                              Nelly Shay (other) aged 17 born India Bootbonder

                              No 2
                              Alfred Smith (head) aged 44 born Bethnal Green Butcher
                              Elizabeth (wife) aged 39 born Hounslow
                              Mary Ann (daughter) aged 11 born Mile End
                              William Whitbread (other) aged 17 born Middlesex Hawker
                              Emma Blard (other) aged 17 born Middlesex
                              Alfred Whitehead (other) aged 16 born Southampton No occupation

                              No 1
                              Robert Brown (head) aged 21 born Chobham Hawker
                              Louisa Wood (other) aged 20 born Blackfriars

                              Charles Green (head) aged 34 born Stepney General Labourer
                              Mary (wife) aged 29 born Shoreditch



                              Miller’s Court 1891

                              No 2
                              Solomon Shremeldy (Head) aged 25 born London City Costermonger
                              Emily Weiss (Boarder) aged 24 born Finsbury Charwoman

                              Lilian Reardon (Head) aged 37 born St John’s Westminster
                              Charles J Reardon (Son) aged 10 born Pimlico

                              Patrick Coulan (Head) aged 39 born Ireland Shoemaker
                              Alice (Wife) aged 29 born Chelsea
                              Bernard (Son) aged 8 born Blackfriars
                              Alfred (Son) aged 4 born Blackfriars
                              Michael (Son) aged 1 week born Shoreditch

                              No 3
                              Joseph Wadham (Head) aged 61 born Bethnal Green Dock Labourer
                              Mary A (Wife) aged 58 born Bethnal Green
                              John (Son) aged 16 born Bethnal Green

                              No 5
                              John Payne (Head) aged 42 born Bishopsgate Porter
                              Jane E (Wife) aged 38 born Shoreditch
                              John (Son) aged 4 born Shoreditch

                              George Soulbery aged 36 born Islington Gas Stoker
                              Elibeth (sic) (Wife) aged 31 born Aberdeen
                              George (Son) aged 14 born Haggerston
                              Frederick (Son) aged 8 born Kingsland

                              Henry Hooker (Head) aged 42 born Shoreditch Stick Dresser
                              Clara E (Wife) aged 35 born Lambeth Match Box Maker
                              William F (Son) aged 16 born Shoreditch Van Boy
                              Eliza Wilson (Visitor) aged 40 born Lambeth Fancy Trimmer

                              No 6
                              Thomas North (Head) aged 34 born Pimlico Brick Maker
                              Sarah (Wife) aged 26 born Penge Charwoman
                              Katherine Durand (Visitor) aged 29 born Westminster Charwoman

                              No 7
                              Elizabeth Norman (Head) aged 34 born London Needlewoman

                              Matilda Merriton (Head) aged 46 born St George’s East

                              No 8
                              Mary A Jeffrey (Head) aged 53 born Bandon, Cork Charwoman
                              Edward (Son) aged 23 born Whitechapel Carman

                              No 11
                              Mary A Griffin (Head) aged 19 born Stepney Rope Maker’s Assistant

                              No 12
                              William Harrison aged 65 born Lambeth Wire Worker
                              Mary A (Wife) aged 65 born Cornwall

                              Edward Childs (Head) aged 35 born Islington Hawker
                              Jane (Wife) aged 32 born Islington

                              No 13
                              Thomas Kelly (Head) aged 35 born Spitalfields Waterside Labourer
                              Ann (Wife) aged 34 born Ireland

                              Elizabeth Harper (Head) aged 39 born Wapping Needlewoman
                              James (Brother) aged 42 born Finsbury Firewood Bundle Maker

                              Mary A Clark (Head) aged 49 born Lancashire Laundress
                              Charles (Son) aged 13 born Hornsey

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