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Millers Court Residents, 1888

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  • #46
    Hi Debs

    See my post #40.

    Perhaps in 1884 Elizabeth felt that having said she was 21 in 1881, she'd better make her age in 1884 tally with it.

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    • #47
      Debs, wasn't there a story in WWD's book, about Kelly and Prater saying goodbye, and Kelly called her 'young dear' or some such, which WWD thought was cute considering Prater's supposed age?

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
        Debs, wasn't there a story in WWD's book, about Kelly and Prater saying goodbye, and Kelly called her 'young dear' or some such, which WWD thought was cute considering Prater's supposed age?
        Yes, Robert. Plus Prater supposedly said she waiting for her 'young man' outside the court which always seemed like an odd thing for a middle aged woman to say, if it was correct.

        here's the settlement record:

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        • #49
          Thanks Debs. Hard to read, but it tallies with her having been deserted 5 years in 1888, doesn't it?

          No sign of Young Elizabeth or Young William in the later censuses.

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          • #50
            Hi All,

            Echo, 10th November 1888

            THE VICTIM'S PREVIOUS ABODES

            From investigations made by our reporter this morning, it appears that Mary Jane has been a tenant of Mr. McCarthy's for ten months. When she took the room she was accompanied by Barnett, whom she assured the landlord was her husband. Until recently they lived on the most affectionate terms, a statement to-day confirmed by Annie Govan, a young woman living in the court, who knew the deceased well; while Elizabeth Smith, also lodging there, remarked, "I have known her a long time. She and Barnett were as happy as possible until she gave way to drink." Prior to lodging in Miller's-court, the murdered woman lived at 35, Dorset-street - a common lodging-house, frequented at the time by Annie Chapman, one of the East-end victims - while her place of abode previous to that was curiously enough in Flower and Dean-street. The front room where the crime was committed is the most public in the court, and the whole of the residents had to pass by the window either on their exit to Dorset-street or to get their water supply."

            Regards,

            Simon

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            • #51
              Sorry Simon, I don't quite follow.

              Debs, against the idea of a young Prater is the sketch of her sitting up in bed on the night of the murder. That shows her as cruelly old, though of course the artist may never have seen her.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                Sorry Simon, I don't quite follow.

                Debs, against the idea of a young Prater is the sketch of her sitting up in bed on the night of the murder. That shows her as cruelly old, though of course the artist may never have seen her.

                I think the younger Prater seems to fit better, Robert. She was deserted at the right time and was separated from her husband still in 88 whereas with the older Prater of the same family she probably never left her husband as she's with him for all the census entries.
                A younger Prater opens up much more scope for mistaken identity scenarios with Kelly too. Perhaps Morris Lewis only ever knew MJK as a young woman who came and went via a door in the entrance passage to Miller's Court, hence his description differing a lot to that given by others who knew MJK?

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                • #53
                  Hi Robert,

                  What's not to follow?

                  Two named women living in Millers Court.

                  Regards,

                  Simon

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                  • #54
                    I'll move this Prater identification to a new thread, Robert

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                      Debs, wasn't there a story in WWD's book, about Kelly and Prater saying goodbye, and Kelly called her 'young dear' or some such, which WWD thought was cute considering Prater's supposed age?
                      In a newspaper interview Prater said that she said to Mary, "Good night old dear," and that Mary replied, "Good night my pretty." WWD thought this was sweetly ironic in that Mary was young, not old and Prater was supposed to be older and not pretty.

                      In that same newspaper article Prater said Mary was wearing her hat and jacket that Thursday night around 9:00 pm.( Prater noted that she herself did not own a hat and jacket.) This is a curious statement in that we read otherwise of Mary going bare headed and wearing a maroon crossover. We know Mary had a hat available, at least the one left by Maria Harvey. I still find it important that a number of newspaper reports said the Ripper burned Mary's black velvet jacket in the fire and that she was known for wearing that garment.

                      In refreshing my memory of the conversation between Prater and Mary, I ended up finding this specific information in a short article on Prater based largely on Chris Scott's work. There is a bit more I will take to the other thread on Prater as I believe it belongs there better than here.
                      The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                      • #56
                        Going back to the query about residents of 9 and 11 Millers Court, (sorry,) I believe Chris Scott gave information on an entry into the Whitechapel infirmary involving a porter called Henry Hemslow who was admitted on Feb 9th, due to 'debility'. He was married and lived at 11 Miller's Court. Of course if he resided there the previous November, who knows! He was discharged 18th February 1889.

                        http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=64

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Curryong View Post
                          Going back to the query about residents of 9 and 11 Millers Court, (sorry,) I believe Chris Scott gave information on an entry into the Whitechapel infirmary involving a porter called Henry Hemslow who was admitted on Feb 9th, due to 'debility'. He was married and lived at 11 Miller's Court. Of course if he resided there the previous November, who knows! He was discharged 18th February 1889.

                          http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=64
                          His name turned out to be Henry Hanslope, Curryong and the rest of the thread you linked to is about his life and antics. He was a strange character and in trouble with police a number of times.

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                          • #58
                            Is there any way of linking BMD records with a specific address? People are being born and die all the time so if any birth and death records for Millers Court for say 1887-1889 could be found it might provide more information.

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                            • #59
                              Number's 9 and 10

                              Hi All,

                              Wanted to give this a bump as I am putting together a census of Miller's Court for a book I am writing.

                              Was it ever established who lived in 9 and 10? I did not see anything in the thread that stated so but wanted to check if anybody had any new intel on this.

                              Thanks

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                              • #60
                                The 1881 and 1891 censuses don't give any names at those numbers either. Were they actual residences or something else? Could that be McCarthy's shop? ( forum.casebook.org/archive/index.php/t-9825.html )
                                The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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