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Charles Lechmere’s Lair?

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  • I did, probably from reading your posts. There was some graffito in Frederick Street around the time the torso was found 'John Cleary is a fool' I think. Not sure whereabouts in Frederick Street. I think Frederick Street was too the left and I think the Brick Archway is Frederick Street. The railway arches along that side don't seem to be bricked all the way up as they normally would. The archway was still there on the 1956 Goads.

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    • Originally posted by Rob Clack View Post
      I did, probably from reading your posts. There was some graffito in Frederick Street around the time the torso was found 'John Cleary is a fool' I think. Not sure whereabouts in Frederick Street. I think Frederick Street was too the left and I think the Brick Archway is Frederick Street. The railway arches along that side don't seem to be bricked all the way up as they normally would. The archway was still there on the 1956 Goads.
      Thanks Rob.

      There was still a little stub of Frederick street running approx N/S, at a r. angle to the the line of the original street, between Pinchin Street and Cable Street in 1889. I think that’s where the graffiti was written. It was a rather forbidding place by all accounts and was described as ‘gruesome’ in one press report.

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      • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post

        Thanks Rob.

        There was still a little stub of Frederick street running approx N/S, at a r. angle to the the line of the original street, between Pinchin Street and Cable Street in 1889. I think that’s where the graffiti was written. It was a rather forbidding place by all accounts and was described as ‘gruesome’ in one press report.
        I had it fixed in my mind that that was where the graffito was written, but now I’m not sure why. Perhaps it was under the arch off Back Church Lane?

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        • The Pinchin Street entrance to Frederick Street is still there. One of the arches which I think is third from the left (thought I had a photo of it but can't find it now). The 'John Cleary is a fool' was on a wall in the vicinity of Pinchin Street. This was the newspaper report mentioning John Clearys name in Frederick Street.
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          • Found it. The arch with the blue shutters on the left was the Pinchin Street end of Frederick Street.
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            • Originally posted by Rob Clack View Post
              Found it. The arch with the blue shutters on the left was the Pinchin Street end of Frederick Street.
              I remember walking along Pinchin Street a few years back and becoming aware of the shutters on one of the arches slowly descending. When I looked more closely I saw that the arch was full of coffins. Unfortunately I couldn’t get my phone out in time to take a photo before the shutter had fully closed. It could well have been that one.

              Thanks again Rob.

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              • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post

                I remember walking along Pinchin Street a few years back and becoming aware of the shutters on one of the arches slowly descending. When I looked more closely I saw that the arch was full of coffins. Unfortunately I couldn’t get my phone out in time to take a photo before the shutter had fully closed. It could well have been that one.

                Thanks again Rob.
                I’ve just noticed the arch to the right is a funeral directors premises.

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                • It would be interesting to have a look inside them or be able to get behind them to see if there is anything left of Frederick Street.

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                  • Originally posted by Rob Clack View Post
                    It would be interesting to have a look inside them or be able to get behind them to see if there is anything left of Frederick Street.
                    I was thinking the other day of jumping on a DLR train and having a butchers out of the window.

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                    • I've had a look on Google Earth and there is not much of a gap.

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                      • Standing (with the help of Google) in Back Church Lane and looking up, there are three distinct bridges crossing it, the modern DLR bridge and two older ones. There is a small gap between the two older bridges and a slightly wider one between the the older bridges and the DLR.

                        Presumably the bridges were originally carried on arches across BCL. If you go further west along Cable Street the next turning off it to the north, shortly before Leman Street is Mill Yard. Its bridge is still carried on an arch. When you get to Leman Street itself the two lines, the original London and Blackwall and the later London Tilbury are quite clearly separate and the Victorian railway architecture has obviously been mucked about.


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                        • I need to go back to BCL with a tape measure to measure this:

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                          • An excellent discovery by RJ Palmer, which he posted over on Casebook. Presumably the shops in question are the catsmeat sheds. (Weekly Dispatch July, 1870)
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                            • Quite a large area then, but is it? the numbering is odd as I thought 3 would have been across the road.

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                              • Originally posted by Rob Clack View Post
                                Quite a large area then, but is it? the numbering is odd as I thought 3 would have been across the road.
                                RJ suggests a renumbering took place in the 1860s. By the period we are interested in no. 4 was the 2nd building going north from 33, Cable Street on the East side of BCL and it had two shops, presumably 6 and 8, adjoining it.

                                So rather than being the site which is currently being built on, it’s the blank wall immediately S of that. And Frederick Street would have been roughly where the kerb was dropped to allow access into the repair shop.

                                Opposite that blank wall, on the W side of BCL is a recess that matches the single shop opposite the 2 shops on the first Goad I/Ed posted.


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