The Bucks Row Punter

[Chris Phillips]

Perhaps I'm being slow on the uptake, but I don't understand the problem suggested in the original post. Who can tell how long it would have taken Polly to find a client? Also, who can tell where she was trying to find one? Is there any reason she couldn't have picked up or been picked up by her murderer on the Whitechapel Road, and then have taken him or have been taken by him to Buck's Row?

[Gary Barnett]

The Spring Issue of the Whitechapel Society Journal will contain an article that is a sort of introduction to the subject of Knackerdom.

The local populace considered the Winthrop Street knackers ‘queer characters’, and someone wrote ‘This is where the murder was done’ on the gates of the Harrison, Barber yard there.

‘Queer characters’ with sharp knives and the skill to use them in poor light; men with time on their hands, one of whom couldn’t or wouldn’t give a categorical denial of the presence of women at the yard. The normally magisterial Wynne Baxter gave up trying to extract sensible responses from Tomkins, citing his ‘slaughterhouse language’ as the reason for the miscommunication.

[Gary Barnett]

Perhaps I'm being slow on the uptake, but I don't understand the problem suggested in the original post. Who can tell how long it would have taken Polly to find a client? Also, who can tell where she was trying to find one? Is there any reason she couldn't have picked up or been picked up by her murderer on the Whitechapel Road, and then have taken him or have been taken by him to Buck's Row?

Yes she could have picked one up in Whitechapel Road, Bakers Row or Brady Street and taken him to Bucks Row as the nearest secluded spot. And afterwards there were several routes by which he could have departed the murder scene.

[Gary Barnett]

I wonder if Mulshaw’s brazier was giving off a visible glow around 3.40 that morning. There was probably some light showing from the knackers yard and possibly the sound of voices was audible. Would the killer have walked towards such obvious signs of human life? Of course, he could have slipped through Wood’s Buildings without being detected.

If he was unfamiliar with the area - the back streets - you’d think he would most likely retrace the route by which Polly took him to Buck’s Row. She, of course, was herself fairly new to Whitechapel - would she have been familiar with the local layout?

[Steve Blomer]

Perhaps I'm being slow on the uptake, but I don't understand the problem suggested in the original post. Who can tell how long it would have taken Polly to find a client? Also, who can tell where she was trying to find one? Is there any reason she couldn't have picked up or been picked up by her murderer on the Whitechapel Road, and then have taken him or have been taken by him to Buck's Row?

All very valid points Chris. A list of questions to which there are no answers

[Steve Blomer]

I wonder if Mulshaw’s brazier was giving off a visible glow around 3.40 that morning. There was probably some light showing from the knackers yard and possibly the sound of voices was audible. Would the killer have walked towards such obvious signs of human life? Of course, he could have slipped through Wood’s Buildings without being detected.

If he was unfamiliar with the area - the back streets - you’d think he would most likely retrace the route by which Polly took him to Buck’s Row. She, of course, was herself fairly new to Whitechapel - would she have been familiar with the local layout?

Possibly she would be familiar, if indeed that area was a distinct area used by the ladies.

[Gary Barnett]

Possibly she would be familiar, if indeed that area was a distinct area used by the ladies.

Possibly, but she’d only been in the area for a few weeks, hadn’t she, and she dossed in Spitalfields. Of course, Whitechapel High Street/Road was a major thoroughfare, so perhaps she’d got to grips with its topography.

Perhaps the presence of the ‘open all hours’ knackers yard made it attractive to homeless women.

If Henry Tomkins had used less confusing ‘slaughterhouse language’, we might have a better idea of who did/didn’t pop into the yard at night.

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

Yes she could have picked one up in Whitechapel Road, Bakers Row or Brady Street and taken him to Bucks Row as the nearest secluded spot. And afterwards there were several routes by which he could have departed the murder scene.

Except for the first one, times are approximate:

2:30 Polly was staggering drunk according to Holland

2:40 after a 7 or 8 minute conversation, she started her walk, no stopping she could be at Bucks Row by 3:00. That didn't happen.Of course, she would have probably stopped on a corner perhaps or anywhere to show that she was available. Let's say she stopped for another 15-20 minutes.

3:00? Possibly picked up a punter. Wouldn't that mean she was walking east in time to get to Bucks Row 3:05am? That would of course put them just ahead of PC Neil instead of just behind on that go-around. So you'd have to say it took longer for her or them to walk or for them to meet up. Neil and Mizen were almost simultaneously walking west on the 45 and the 15 minute marks. They'd have to wait for them to pass and finish the walk after 3:15.

3:20 to 3:30 arrival. The walk and pickup time leaves room for the transaction and exit or the murder and escape.

[Gary Barnett]

Or perhaps she criss-crossed the road to accost potential customers.

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

Thanks for the input, Gary. I’d definitely like to see a re-enactment of that. Ed?

She was traveling east according to the witness. It made me think. Did the punter or punters or just regular pedestrians come from the East going west?

PC Thain only saw a couple of workmen on Brady St. Was any punter traffic really coming from that end or was it coming from the western end or seeping in from the side?

So why wouldn’t she position herself in the best spot. Everything is about location.

Then if he came from the west and going in the same direction she started, why cross two or three policeman’s beats to go to that location? It’s even more strange if there were brothels there. It doesn’t seem logical for a transaction or random for a murder.

[Gary Barnett]

But let’s not forget that Polly was a newcomer to the area. It’s unlikely she knew very much about local brothels, police beats or the best locations. The period between her interaction with Holland and her meeting her killer was probably the quietest of the entire night. If there’s a steady stream of pedestrians passing by, a fixed point from which to accost likely-looking punters makes sense, but if the traffic is intermittent coming from both directions and on both side of the street, standing in one spot is less efficient.

Presumably, most people moving along the street at that time were on their way to or from their place of employment from or to their homes. But what kind of employment required its workforce to be abroad at 2.30 - 3.00? That’s early even for the wholesale markets. An hour earlier or later and there would have been considerably more people passing along the streets.

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

if the traffic is intermittent coming from both directions and on both side of the street, standing in one spot is less efficient.

I'll have to agree with you. I now think it was the punter who was waiting around.

But what kind of employment required its workforce to be abroad at 2.30 - 3.00? That’s early even for the wholesale markets. An hour earlier or later and there would have been considerably more people passing along the streets.

So the punter, at least, picked the quietest time. Why?...

Here's the earliest discussion of the Bucks Row Punter. Frank van Oploo actually uses the term punter.

Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Message Boards: Polly. Why here?

It's actually a discussion of the location choice. The members seem to chalk it up to inexperience. To me, that point on Bucks Row is actually the perfect location to commit a spectacular crime on a "thoroughfare".