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Was General Casimir Pulaski a Woman?

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  • Was General Casimir Pulaski a Woman?

    General Casimir Pulaski was a Polish military commander who came to help the Patriot cause in the American Revolution. He has been called the father of American Cavalry. He was mortally wounded during the Battle of Savannah, Georgia in 1779. Based on an investigation of his remains in his tomb in Savannah, the remains in his tomb appear to be female not male. This historical mystery is the subject of a documentary running on the Smithsonian Channel.

    See this short video and note times of running of the documentary on the Smithsonian Channel:

    https://www.smithsonianchannel.com/s...005729/3469173

    Also see --

    https://www.history.com/news/casimir...rsex-discovery
    Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
    https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

    Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
    Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Chris G. View Post
    General Casimir Pulaski was a Polish military commander who came to help the Patriot cause in the American Revolution. He has been called the father of American Cavalry. He was mortally wounded during the Battle of Savannah, Georgia in 1779. Based on an investigation of his remains in his tomb in Savannah, the remains in his tomb appear to be female not male. This historical mystery is the subject of a documentary running on the Smithsonian Channel.

    See this short video and note times of running of the documentary on the Smithsonian Channel:

    https://www.smithsonianchannel.com/s...005729/3469173

    Also see --

    https://www.history.com/news/casimir...rsex-discovery
    A bit more --

    http://w3r-us.org/americas-hidden-st...eneral-female/





    If General Pulaski was a woman how did he get away with that moustache, and what does the Polish community feel about the controversy?
    Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
    https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

    Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
    Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

    Comment


    • #3
      There are a number of examples throughout history of "male" soldiers and sailors who have turned out to be females, so the suggestion that General Pulaski could have been a woman is not out of order.

      I also think of the case of leading Jack the Ripper suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety, a quack doctor who was in Liverpool in the 1870's, where he was the lover of novelist Hall Caine, then working for the Liverpool Echo, and who was arrested in the East End of London at the time of the Ripper murders, but ostensibly for homosexual offenses, then illegal, not for the murders.

      Although Tumblety had a luxuriant moustache, he is now thought to have been a hermaphrodite, part man and part woman. Could that have been the case with Pulaski as well -- which might explain the "female" remains in Pulaski's tomb in Savannah?



      Francis Tumblety
      Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
      https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

      Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
      Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Chris G. View Post
        There are a number of examples throughout history of "male" soldiers and sailors who have turned out to be females, so the suggestion that General Pulaski could have been a woman is not out of order.

        I also think of the case of leading Jack the Ripper suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety, a quack doctor who was in Liverpool in the 1870's, where he was the lover of novelist Hall Caine, then working for the Liverpool Echo, and who was arrested in the East End of London at the time of the Ripper murders, but ostensibly for homosexual offenses, then illegal, not for the murders.

        Although Tumblety had a luxuriant moustache, he is now thought to have been a hermaphrodite, part man and part woman. Could that have been the case with Pulaski as well -- which might explain the "female" remains in Pulaski's tomb in Savannah?



        Francis Tumblety
        That was what I was thinking. The condition is caused by an extra X chromosome just as an extra Y chromosome causes Downs syndrome. The chromosomes come into play at about the 7th week of pregnancy, before then all foetuses are female and the chromosomes decide whether to change the sex to male*. The extra female X chromosome disrupts that process.
        *This is also why men have nipples.

        Comment


        • #5
          If you look at the statue of General Pulaski you'll see that his horse has one front hoof up in the air. There was an old rule about how cavalry statues were supposed to be made. I hope I can remember this correctly, but I think it went something like this:

          If all four of the horse's hoofs were implanted on the ground, then that meant that the rider survived the war.

          If both front hoofs were up in the air, then that meant that the rider was killed on the battlefield.

          And if one front hoof was up in the air, then that meant that the rider was wounded on the battlefield, but died of his injuries a little later on and away from the battlefield.

          Pulaski was wounded on the battlefield, but he died of his injuries a couple of days later, thus his statue shows his horse with one front hoof in the air.

          But sometimes when I see modern day sculpted statues of cavalry warriors, I don't think these old rules are adhered to anymore.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Joe Chetcuti View Post
            If you look at the statue of General Pulaski you'll see that his horse has one front hoof up in the air. There was an old rule about how cavalry statues were supposed to be made. I hope I can remember this correctly, but I think it went something like this:

            If all four of the horse's hoofs were implanted on the ground, then that meant that the rider survived the war.

            If both front hoofs are up in the air, then that meant that the rider was killed on the battlefield.

            And if one front hoof is in the air, that meant that the rider was wounded on the battlefield, but died of his injuries a little later on and away from the battlefield.

            Pulaski was wounded on the battlefield, but he died of his injuries a couple of days later, thus his statue shows his horse with one front hoof in the air.

            But sometimes when I see modern day sculpted statues of cavalry warriors, I don't think these old rules are adhered to anymore.
            Thanks, Joe and Phil. You are correct, Joe, that the one hoof raised on Pulaski's equestrian statue shows that he was mortally wounded in his last battle.
            Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
            https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

            Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
            Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

            Comment


            • #7
              I could understand Pulaski possibly having an intersex condition, and out of decorum, the people of his day kept this matter private when they put him to rest.

              But in today's world, that type of privacy is thrown out the window and the specifics of what is in Pulaski's grave gets publicized. It's too bad that there is controversy over it. Pulaski was what he was, and his achievements shouldn't be thought of any less.

              Comment


              • #8
                Based on what I learned in physiology and biology classes, sexuality is not always an absolute thing. Like Phillip noted below, embryos start out female and some develop into males. (I donīt know whether to gloat about everyone starting out female or cringe remembering German medical texts from the 1500īs that defined women as not fully formed men. Those old texts had drawings of internal female organs as inverted penises!)

                To me, all this political agitation about sexuality is way overblown. IMO people should learn basic biology and then understand and respect all life.
                The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Phillip Walton View Post
                  just as an extra Y chromosome causes Downs syndrome.
                  Philip, the main cause of Down's syndrome is Trisomy 21, having an extra, full or partial copy of chromosome 21.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Joe Chetcuti View Post
                    I could understand Pulaski possibly having an intersex condition, and out of decorum, the people of his day kept this matter private when they put him to rest.

                    But in today's world, that type of privacy is thrown out the window and the specifics of what is in Pulaski's grave gets publicized. It's too bad that there is controversy over it. Pulaski was what he was, and his achievements shouldn't be thought of any less.
                    Well said, Joe.
                    Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
                    https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

                    Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
                    Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I can believe that embryos start out female - and then half of them change their minds.

                      Comment


                      • #12
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                        • #13
                          I wonder what inspired these people to open up General Pulaski's tomb in the first place. You have to obtain a court order to open a tomb. What reason did they present to the court when requesting this order?

                          "We just want to check to see if the General was both male and female."

                          That's all it takes to allow a tomb to be opened? There is probably more to this story than I'm seeing.

                          The Smithsonian presentation film was fine. But the whole intersex thing seemed to be irrelevant. Pulaski's work on the battlefield outshined everything else.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Joltin' Joe:

                            That was the first thing that crossed my mind....why dig Caz up in the first place.
                            Apparently, there was concern that it wasn't Pulaski's remains in the first place.

                            Some historical records said Pulaski was buried at sea, while others said he was in an unmarked grave in Savannah. In 1996, anthropologist Virginia Hutton Estabrook of Georgia Southern University and her colleagues discovered an unmarked grave they thought could be his. Yet when they examined the skeleton in the grave, they thought its pelvic bones looked more female than male. Further tests that tried to identify the person’s sex came back inconclusive.


                            But years later, Estabrook and her colleagues found that the skeleton’s DNA matched a relative of Pulaski’s who died in the 19th century. They now believe that Pulaski may have been intersex, meaning he would’ve had a range of sex characteristics that we think of as male or female. In addition to having female skeletal characteristics, we know that Pulaski had male characteristics like facial hair and baldness.
                            To Join JTR Forums :
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                            • #15
                              Thanks Howard. Since there was a legitimate question about Pulaski actually being in that grave or not, then yes, I can now see why an anthropologist went to a court to have that grave opened.

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