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Witnesses before the Inquest

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Tom_Wescott
    Of course not, because that would be a simple explanation, and you don't like those much.
    I don't think you read my reply properly. I was agreeing with you, once I'd seen that earlier draft.

    I'm just trying to understand your thinking about Schwartz, because I'm interested myself. I don't understand why you're being so defensive and hostile.

    Chris Phillips

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by R.J.Palmer
      P.S. In regards to Schwartz, the naturalization papers for an "Israel Schwartz" exist in the PRO. The application was made quite late --1911, if memory serves-- but I've never bothered to order these to find out if it is the same man.
      Unfortunately it's not - I checked it last year and posted the details on forum.casebook.org. I'm copying the post below for information.

      Chris Phillips
      _______________________________________
      1st November 2006, 11:19 PM

      Quote:

      Originally Posted by cgp100
      Funnily enough, there is a naturalisation for an Israel Schwartz, from "Austria", dated 1911 (and therefore closed for another 6 years):
      http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4926/5686.html

      However, in the light of the information that's been posted about different men of the same name, I'm inclined to think this is probably one of the other ones.


      Oddly, it turns out that only naturalisation papers dated after 1922 are closed for a hundred years, so this one isn't (though the document itself still sports a sticker saying "Closed until 2011").

      Anyway, unfortunately it evidently doesn't relate to the witness Israel Schwartz, because the date of birth is given as 30 December 1873, which would make him only 14 at the time of Stride's murder.

      In case it's useful for elimination, this man's address was 44 Tavistock Crescent, Westbourne Park, and it's stated that he'd lived there since 15 August 1906 (and at 23 Bolton Road, Notting Hill, from 24 December 1900 to 15 August 1906). He had been born in Cholojowa in the province of Galicia, the son of Marcus and Pessi Schwartz, and was a master tailor, working from home. In his memorial, dated 1 March 1911, his children are aged 14 down to 3.
      [HO 144/1134/207084]

      He was at the Bolton Road address in the 1901 census, when his age was given as 28.

      Chris Phillips

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      • #18
        Chris,

        I apologize. I had misread your post and thought you were disagreeing with the information I posted RE: Anderson/Warren. I'll be more careful next time. I do admit to being a tad on the defensive as it seems most don't wish to discuss a topic per se, but instead prefer to destroy a theory or idea before even taking the time to understand it. Not sure why that is, must be a competitive oneupsmanship thing. That's one of the reasons I prefer not to post about Stride on the Casebook nor discuss it with AP Wolf.

        Yours truly,

        Tom Wescott

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Tom_Wescott
          I do admit to being a tad on the defensive as it seems most don't wish to discuss a topic per se, but instead prefer to destroy a theory or idea before even taking the time to understand it.
          Rest assured I don't actually have any strong feelings or preconceptions about any of these matters, or any desire to attack people's theories. I'm just curious to see the evidence behind them. If I think the evidence is weak, or if I think there's evidence to the contrary, of course I'll say so, but it's not done in any spirit of personal hostility.

          Chris Phillips

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Chris Phillips
            In case it's useful for elimination, this man's address was 44 Tavistock Crescent, Westbourne Park.
            Chris - Thanks for that; you're a trooper. I hadn't seen this before, but I've always meant to go back and track that particular Israel Schwartz down. You've saved me the trouble. Thanks.

            Comment


            • #21
              I need to jump over to a witness at the Eddowes Inquest for a moment here. Please go to google and type in... William Sedgwick Saunders died at "Cranbrook"

              You'll read that he died on March 11, 1908.

              Then click here... http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4920/10913.html

              Neal has Saunders' death occurring in 1901. Does anybody know which one is correct? My dime is on Neal.

              Ripperologists of a feather stick together.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Joe Chetcuti View Post
                William Sedgwick Saunders died at "Cranbrook"

                You'll read that he died on March 11, 1908.

                Then click here... http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4920/10913.html

                Neal has Saunders' death occurring in 1901. Does anybody know which one is correct?
                A William Sedgwick Saunders did indeed die in 1908, but he was a Tea Traveler, a lá Tommy Cutbush.

                The man you want died in 1901.

                UK Death Index:

                William Sedgwick Saunders
                Born: abt 1825
                Died: 1901 (Jan-Feb-Mar)
                Kensington
                Greater London, London, Middlesex


                1871 England Census:

                Name: Wm Sedgwick Saunders
                Age 46
                Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
                Relation: Head
                Spouse's Name: Lydia
                Where born: Plymouth, Devon, England
                Civil Parish: St Antholin
                Occupation: Police Surgeon

                "Dr. Stanley, I presume?" "You must be Livingstone."

                Comment


                • #23
                  Roger is the Answer Man

                  Thank you, sir. You remind me of the Professor on Gilligan's Island.

                  Hey, I just won a dime for betting on Neal to have been correct. Pegg was right, Neal is a credit to men named Neal Shelden.

                  For some reason it makes perfect sense when she says that, but if anybody else were to say that, it would just sound silly!!

                  Interesting chap this Saunders.

                  Comment

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