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  • A Sensation Exploded

    Jackson ( Michigan) Citizen Patriot
    March 8, 1894
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  • #2
    That's odd. Didn't Macnaghten use the phrase "Simon Pure" in his memorandum at almost exactly the same time?

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    • #3
      He sure did, Bob.

      Looks like there is the possibility that the content of Macnaghten's memoranda had been seen by someone in the public sector....possibly as an counter measure to the Sun's February 13-17 series....

      Excellent eye, Mr. Linford.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
        That's odd. Didn't Macnaghten use the phrase "Simon Pure" in his memorandum at almost exactly the same time?


        Originally posted by How Brown View Post
        He sure did, Bob.

        Looks like there is the possibility that the content of Macnaghten's memoranda had been seen by someone in the public sector....possibly as an counter measure to the Sun's February 13-17 series....

        Excellent eye, Mr. Linford.
        No, sorry, gentlemen, Sir Melville Macnaghten did not use the phrase "Simon Pure" in the 1894 Memorandum.

        Rather, Macnaghten uses the term "Simon Pure" in his 1913 autobiography, Days of My Years, Chapter 4, "Laying the Ghost of Jack the Ripper":

        "I do not think that there was anything of religious mania about the real Simon Pure, nor do I believe that he had ever been detained in an asylum, nor lived in lodgings. I incline to the belief that the individual who held up London in terror resided with his own people ; that he absented himself from home at certain times, and that he committed suicide on or about the 10th of November 1888, after he had knocked out a Commissioner of Police and very nearly settled the hash of one of Her Majesty's principal Secretaries of State." [Emphasis mine]

        Best regards

        Chris
        Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
        https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

        Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
        Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

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        • #5
          CG:

          Thanks for that...
          It, however, is highly unusual that the phrase was used within two weeks of the appearance of the Sun series.
          I can't recall the use of this phrase at any other time since I began trawling fulltime.
          I still think Bob's mention of Macnaghten's use of that phrase might be something to keep in mind.
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          • #6
            Thanks Chris. I suppose How's article might refer to Cutbush via the "Sun" series, except that it says that the erroneous reports say that the Ripper was discovered in London. Cutbush was in Broadmoor at the time. It's odd, though, that they say "discovered" and not "arrested."

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            • #7
              Originally posted by How Brown View Post
              CG:

              Thanks for that...
              It, however, is highly unusual that the phrase was used within two weeks of the appearance of the Sun series.
              I can't recall the use of this phrase at any other time since I began trawling fulltime.
              I still think Bob's mention of Macnaghten's use of that phrase might be something to keep in mind.
              Hi again Howard

              No, but it seems to have been a regularly used Victorian expression, in a few cases used in print in conjunction with other instances of persons of the name of Macnaghten. See here:

              Lady Macnaghten and "Simon Pure" in The Asiatic Journal, Vol 38, 1842.

              Mr. Macnaghten and "Simon Pure" in The Asiatic Journal, Vol 27, 1838, pp. 328-329 (top left col. of p. 328 and top line of p. 329).

              Interestingly, the term "settle the hash" also occurs elsewhere in reference to the Macnaghten name:

              "... when Sale's brigade was to quit Cabul on its return journey to India. Macnaghten seems to have originally intended to accompany this force, for he wrote that he 'hoped to settle the hash of the Ghilzais on the way down, if not before.' The rising, however, spread so widely and so rapidly that immediate action was judged necessary, and on October 9th Colonel Monteath marched towards the passes with his own regiment, the 35th Native Infantry, some artillery ..." [emphasis mine]
              —quote from The Afghan Wars 1839-42 and 1878-80 by Archibald Forbes.

              Presuming these are Macnaghtens who were related to the police chief, which they may well have been, he was probably quite aware of this family history and the use of the terms in conjunction to the Asian exploits of his relatives.

              Best regards

              Chris
              Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
              https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

              Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
              Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

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              • #8
                CG:

                That's appreciated,old bean.
                Nicely done in locating the "settling the hash" phrase too.
                In one of the American newspaper sources I use, I found the phrase used 240 times during 1894, alone.
                That term "Simon Pure" may be found 18 times within the year 1894 in the British Library source I often use.

                I still think that its a little more than coincidence, despite the wide spread, worldwide use of the term that it materialized in the article...just my opinion.
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                • #9
                  Yes well maybe, although it's all too easy in this case to make connections where there are none. I note that it is especially rife in the Royal conspiracy crowd, where the line of thought often goes such and such a person belonged to such and such a club and therefore. . . , or else so and so lived in the next street over from so and so, therefore. . . If you see what I mean. Of course that's shaky reasoning and not proof of anything.

                  All the best

                  Chris
                  Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
                  https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

                  Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
                  Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    CG:
                    Your point(s) are understood...I proceed with caution.
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