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  • Military Historians needed!!

    Hi folks

    Is there anybody here who can help identify these military badges/insignias? - I'm having a lot of trouble. Even if someone can tell me what the symbols are, it would help.

    Click image for larger version

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    JB

  • #2
    Hi John

    The one on the left has the Roman "fasces" on it. This symbol is a bundle of sticks showing unity and was first used in antiquity by the Romans, if not beforehand. It was also used by Mussolini's Fascist Party in Italy and I assume this might be a badge of that party but can not be certain.

    Best regards

    Chris
    Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
    https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

    Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
    Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

    Comment


    • #3
      The one top right may be a grenadier badge. I concur that the badge top left is an Italian fascist insignia. The lower one appears to be a Catholic Church insignia. It is possible that they are all Italian in origin.

      Comment


      • #4
        John,

        May be worth tapping up Steve Stanley on Faceache.

        Monty

        Comment


        • #5
          The lower one to me resembles a Knights Cross of the World War I variety, if not a bit earlier.

          If you don't know anyone personally to validate what they are it may be worth showing them to a local antiques collector / dealer.

          Cheers,
          Adam.

          Comment


          • #6
            Just emailed them to my (American) boss in Rome, who's a specialist in everything Italian, he might be able to recognize if that badge has anything to do with the Italian fascist party or he might know of some Italian historian specialized in this. Just give it a day or two, as it's the middle of the night in Europe right now, though the guy's an early bird.

            Will also email them to my BF who's a specialist in all things WWII (not so much WWI), but currently traveling in NZ with almost inexistent internet access.
            Please give it a couple days for NZ, possibly more than a week or two.

            PS.: John, did you try a Google images search?
            Best regards,
            Maria

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks for the replies folks. I've done loads of google searching and got the 'fasces' imagery and have seen it on severalmilitary insignias, even US, but the Italian link is the strongest (which I think it is). The others remain a bit of a mystery, but the replies here are helping.

              Monty - have mentioned it to Steve on FB.

              Comment


              • #8
                John, the gold fleur de lis may be French Foreign Legion.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                  John, the gold fleur de lis may be French Foreign Legion.

                  Yes! Go to this Google image result.
                  Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
                  https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

                  Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
                  Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    John

                    As for the bottom-most insignia, I am thinking in terms of engineers or sappers, although what you have doesn't seem to match ones I have seen for the engineers and sappers of various militaries around the world. It could also be the badge of a fraternal club of mechanics or artisans. Do you know for a fact that it is the insignia of a military unit?

                    Best regards

                    Chris
                    Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
                    https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

                    Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
                    Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The bottom one could be the 'Fire Department Brotherhood' which looks very similar or it could be the Order of St. John.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The one on the left seems to be a Guardia Civil insignia, and is spanish



                        Edit:, yep, confirmed as a Spanish Police isignia:

                        http://www.todocoleccion.net/insigni...tado~x23367307
                        "The Men who were not the Man who was not Jack the Ripper!"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Magpie View Post
                          The one on the left seems to be a Guardia Civil insignia, and is spanish



                          Edit:, yep, confirmed as a Spanish Police isignia:

                          http://www.todocoleccion.net/insigni...tado~x23367307
                          Well done, Magpie.

                          I wonder though if that was just under Franco or if it's a current insignia?

                          Best regards

                          Chris
                          Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
                          https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

                          Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
                          Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Chris G. View Post
                            Well done, Magpie.

                            I wonder though if that was just under Franco or if it's a current insignia?

                            Best regards

                            Chris
                            Hi Chris--they are still using a simplified "outline" version of the crossed fasces and sword on their website, but I can't find anything that shows their current uniform.
                            "The Men who were not the Man who was not Jack the Ripper!"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Boss in Rome is gonna look it up, he still needs to read something of mine first.

                              BF's MIA in Wellington for 2 days (lol), but him being Frrrench, he'll certainly know if the fleur de lys could be French Foreign Legion. (Generally the fleur de lys was associated with Charlemagne and later on with the Bourbons dynasty, but I hear it's been incorporated on coats of arms in Canada and in the Southern US States.)

                              I could also ask at the French Police Museum, they carry a collection of badges, but it'll have to wait until I get back to Europe in the spring.
                              For the Franco stuff, I'm sure there's a Spanish Police Museum that one could contact online.

                              But I'm getting the impression that these coats of arms moved around a lot/got imitated a lot, so it's a bit of a free for all.
                              Best regards,
                              Maria

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