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New Deadly Virus is Spreading/ Covid19 Pandemic 2020

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  • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    I?m fascinated by the legend(?) of the Yeti and I watched a documentary a few years back where it was said that the Sherpas of the Himalayas had a certain gene which enabled them to cope with low oxygen, a gene, it was suggested that may have come from interbreeding with a species of early humans that could have survived long enough to have entered the folklore of the area.

    Probably a load of codswallop, but when it comes to the Yeti, science takes a back seat as far as I?m concerned. Of course they exist!
    Some say that is Denisovan DNA.
    The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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    • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
      Probably a load of codswallop, but when it comes to the Yeti, science takes a back seat as far as I?m concerned. Of course they exist!

      You are in good company, Gary. David Attenborough has said that, of all such mysterious beasts, he believes that the Yeti is the most likely to exist.
      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

      "Suche Nullen"
      (F. Nietzsche)

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      • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
        You are in good company, Gary. David Attenborough has said that, of all such mysterious beasts, he believes that the Yeti is the most likely to exist.
        Thanks for that, Gareth!

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        • The view before the U.S. Presidential Election of 2020

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          • "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
            Winston Churchill



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            • I think, with this corona virus, as was true of the 1918 flu, it is here to stay. It is said the 1918 flu is still around but is mild now and most of us have been exposed.

              I have been in favor of protective measures against SARSCoV-2 but unfortunately, at least in the U.S., the collateral damage is probably not worth trying to stop a virus that cannot be stopped. So many bad decisions have been made that basically nobody has to do anything because...you know.....THE VIRUS!

              (i.e., the town wherein is my secondary home, has had all banks shut down, except for drive through, since March! It is said you can get an appointment for more complex transactions but if you try, you are treated like a criminal and denied. WTF???????? Of course I dumped my bank in that town. Went without cash since March. My business partner loaned me some cash before I took a long trip a couple weeks ago. Didn't want a pi**ing match with my new bank, a smaller one in Idaho. Finally consulted an officer at the new bank. Told her I was viewing banks as the Roach Motels of cash.....Money checks in but it never checks out. Was able to get some cash. I hate to feel like I need to crawl to get a little of my own money. I have had difficult times in my life and I can live on nothing if I have to but my late husband wanted me to always be secure. Yeah....but.....The Virus!)
              The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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              • Sorry to hear of your difficulties, Anna.

                Over here, I must admit I'm impressed by the nearly total acceptance of the need for wearing masks.

                No one has come down with the virus at work, save the one woman who had an infected husband. She came through hunky dory after two or three weeks of quarantine.

                Never heard anything about the one woman who used to work at our facility who drove co-workers to work knowing that her two working daughters tested positive. We sort of wanted her to come back just so we could lay into her for her selfish and stupid deed. She was hired as a 'temp'.

                Problem is, is that some people who come down with the virus and are told to quarantine don't...because they desperately need the money. One issue I have with our company has been it's decision to hire temporary help to fill positions in one or two departments. They don't have the sense of community that long time employees do...several of us have over 30 years and even more 20 years of service.
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                • Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
                  I think, with this corona virus, as was true of the 1918 flu, it is here to stay.

                  ?


                  Do those graphs not show the 1918 flu going away, before your very eyes?

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                  • Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post
                    ?


                    Do those graphs not show the 1918 flu going away, before your very eyes?
                    Yes. Viruses mutate. There is some thought the 1918 virus passed through in a milder form circa 1917, then mutated into a deadly form in 1918.

                    I have long been interested in plagues and had a discussion on some website about viral mutations. My opinion was, OMG....some certain virus...don't remember which....would come back and ill a bunch of people. The reply to me was that extremely deadly viruses frequently become milder so they can spread more efficiently, thus survive more or less. Not that viruses are alive but they do like to replicate and pass themselves around.

                    Like I have said many times, weird viruses have been coming around for quite awhile. Even doctors in clinical practice admit there are strange viruses that make people awful sick for a long time. I have begged for testing but was always told there is no way to identify these things! IF I had the corona virus in January, 2020, other than making the chronic migraine a lot worse, I got off easy even though I have a drop-dead profile due to an erratic heart rate. BUT I was extremely ill from weird viruses--not flu--in 2017/18/19. Might these have been milder forms of the present virus? Those outbreaks did a lot of what COVID does but apparently not so many people were needing hospitalization or dying from it.
                    The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                    • I had to return to Oregon. Beautiful day. I had the urge to stop at a little cafe along the route, a place where my husband and I used to have dinner sometimes.

                      I thought it was curious that there were basically no cars in the parking lot and lots of placards on the door. I decided to read before entering.

                      "By order of the Governor......face masks....". Basically no different from many places in Idaho though in Idaho the restrictions are county by county. (IMO it is better to have statewide rules.) Anyway, none of this was a deterrent to me.

                      THEN I read the top most placard. BECAUSE of a massive outbreak in Nearby Town...... That particular town has a small college and of course just HAD to open dorms and classes, etc. and I'm sure NOBODY has any idea how this outbreak occurred.

                      That was enough for me. I have decided to rely on masks for reduced viral load, thus perhaps natural immunity. (Or maybe I had the disease in January but it's too far back to test and the tests aren't much good anyway and my doctor says the tests give too many false results, positive and negative.)

                      So, not knowing if I might be immune, I keep track of what I do in 14 day increments. Last month I had to go to Portland, Oregon to help a helpless and crippled friend who had been unattended for days and left to die without care. Folks in Oregon line up at the bank for $500 stipends...because The Virus... This is according to friends who work in Portland banks. Meanwhile I feel like a criminal when I beg for some of my own money but I digress. Because people are so well rewarded for doing nothing, it is hard to get workers to take care of the sick and crippled. Thus my friend had been left to starve, dehydrate and....I don't want to say more.

                      Portland was a filthy, crowded place and I was in and out of a huge hospital while my friend was being stabilized after a number of days of no care, food, fluids, etc... (Don't ask questions. I don't want to answer anything.)

                      A few days after I returned I had a sinus infection. Quite apparent ONE nostril was infected but I had a fever. I was doing a 14 day quarantine anyway, as per Idaho rules about returning from COVID hot spots...or third world countries. (Portland kind of qualifies as both, I think.)* I recovered but I was scared for a few days.

                      *(When I was lost in that city, I noted curbs along city streets all had signs: Paid Parking Only...Will Be Towed... In desperation I sometimes pulled over to these curbs to look at my cell phone, left my blinkers on, engine running, car in gear, foot on the breaks. Come Saturday, the homeless moved into those "Paid Parking" zones. Some came in ratty motor homes and others build weird, terrible looking shanties. One night there was a heavy storm and branches came down on some of the little huts. Additionally some sloppy new housing construction had apparently planted dead trees as part of the landscaping and some of these blew across major streets. That was an interesting challenge in the dark.)

                      I have business partners in my nature reserve. One is an older gentleman who developed the land in the first place. I would never forgive myself if I infected the few friends I have in real life. This fellow thinks he already had the virus after an overseas trip in January. Maybe. His wife, closer to my age, got sick after he returned. Maybe they are safe. Maybe I am safe.

                      I do quite well living with my dogs and watching the wildlife on the river and in my fields. I have been very fortunate in life and I like to support small businesses in this time of distress. I am now in my residence in the COVID hot spot and I will not do ANY shopping or eating out. I have plenty of food and am a good cook. I am tired of paranoia, worry and a hopeless feeling while I count out 14 day increments. So it goes.

                      At least in Idaho I avoid crowds.
                      The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                      • Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
                        Yes. Viruses mutate. There is some thought the 1918 virus passed through in a milder form circa 1917, then mutated into a deadly form in 1918.

                        I have long been interested in plagues and had a discussion on some website about viral mutations. My opinion was, OMG....some certain virus...don't remember which....would come back and ill a bunch of people. The reply to me was that extremely deadly viruses frequently become milder so they can spread more efficiently, thus survive more or less. Not that viruses are alive but they do like to replicate and pass themselves around.

                        But surely what we're seeng in the graphs over the course of a year is the virus going away, not because it was mutating into a milder form, but because of the effects of increasing immunity, modified by people's changing behaviour and/or seasonal factors. Immunity does stop a virus spreading, and evidently the immunity to Spanish flu was quite durable, as it could still be seen in survivors 90 years later:
                        https://www.nature.com/news/2008/080...2008.1045.html


                        I think the conclusion has to be that in the longer term it could survive only by mutating. This coronavirus is a different proposition, because it mutates much more slowly than flu viruses. In that respect I am more hopeful than some people, in that I think both that acquired immunity will start to reduce the spread quite a lot, as it did in 1918, and that vaccination has the capacity to turn it into a rare disease that won't permanently disrupt our way of life.

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                        • Chris: I think it is hard to interpret the 1918-1919 data because of the aftermath of WWI, censorship and other factors. It is believed, perhaps proven, that troop movements during the war spread the disease. Then troops returned home. Europe was in a mess. Meanwhile global travel was less efficient so how long did it take for the virus to reach more distant areas, etc.?

                          What would have been the trajectory of the disease if not for the war? It might have died out on the farm in Kansas, if that is the source. Maybe some farms and villages would have been affected, quarantined and the thing would have died out. The spread would certainly have been slower.

                          The latest information I find on COVID is the mortality is about .4%, mostly people over 80. The bigger problem which doctors and researchers are just beginning to acknowledge is long term sequelae for some. Little by little it has been found that some viruses cause terrible "chronic" diseases. For instance, Coxsackie virus is now pinpointed as a cause of Type-1, juvenile diabetes.

                          Unfortunately, between people and politics, I feel like the present mess has been badly mishandled. Until now doctors accepted awful, unknown viral diseases as something to live with. Until recently, the workforce was told to keep on working and not to take sick days. Mentally no one was prepared and then we see, especially in the U.S., so much contradictory activity and policy.

                          For all we know, this virus has been around for awhile and this pass through is suddenly more deadly. Hopefully it will weaken. Death rates seem to be down for whatever reason.
                          The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                          • Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
                            Chris: I think it is hard to interpret the 1918-1919 data because of the aftermath of WWI, censorship and other factors. It is believed, perhaps proven, that troop movements during the war spread the disease. Then troops returned home. Europe was in a mess. Meanwhile global travel was less efficient so how long did it take for the virus to reach more distant areas, etc.?

                            What would have been the trajectory of the disease if not for the war? It might have died out on the farm in Kansas, if that is the source. Maybe some farms and villages would have been affected, quarantined and the thing would have died out. The spread would certainly have been slower.

                            The latest information I find on COVID is the mortality is about .4%, mostly people over 80. The bigger problem which doctors and researchers are just beginning to acknowledge is long term sequelae for some. Little by little it has been found that some viruses cause terrible "chronic" diseases. For instance, Coxsackie virus is now pinpointed as a cause of Type-1, juvenile diabetes.

                            Unfortunately, between people and politics, I feel like the present mess has been badly mishandled. Until now doctors accepted awful, unknown viral diseases as something to live with. Until recently, the workforce was told to keep on working and not to take sick days. Mentally no one was prepared and then we see, especially in the U.S., so much contradictory activity and policy.

                            For all we know, this virus has been around for awhile and this pass through is suddenly more deadly. Hopefully it will weaken. Death rates seem to be down for whatever reason.

                            I think what I'm really looking for is some solid evidence to back up your opinion that "the collateral damage is probably not worth trying to stop a virus that cannot be stopped." Most particularly because I think it can be stopped. And in Europe it was largely stopped during the Summer, with only moderate restrictions to people's activities.

                            I'm sorry to be blunt, but only yesterday I had an email from someone who was terribly worried about a family member who is a health service worker and quite ill in intensive care. That kind of thing makes me feel very bad.

                            That family member was only about 50, I should think, and not in a particular risk category as far as I know. I would guess he contracted the virus through his work, trying to save the life of a patient. But generally this is not just a disease that kills octogenarians. In the UK, about a quarter of the fatalities are in people under 75. Not that I share the inclination of some people anyway, to write off the deaths of elderly people as preferable to disrupting our convenient way of life.

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                            • Chris: I don't disagree with what you are saying. There are so many worm holes in the U.S. approach, I don't know if the virus can be stopped. It is not just government but also the population which persistently celebrates any loosened restrictions with congregating in a crowded venue.

                              (In Oregon the first steps were for the governor to apply for federal disaster money when there were a few cases in the state, then she had a stay at home order for a couple weeks or something. Everyone thought they had a vacation so they went to the Oregon coast is large numbers, really packing in to stores and restaurants. Then businesses on the coast got worried and so it goes...)

                              I do not believe researchers have any idea how many people may have immunity since many of us think we were sick in December. We can't be tested at this point. Maybe there is more immunity present than is known.

                              At least in this country it is often said the public schools--U.S. definition here--are the reason we have "flu season". All the kids swap germs and viruses and share with the general population. I figure the battle was totally lost when there was insistence to open the schools. If anyone was serious about stopping the virus I'd think especially university students could have been tested, etc. BEFORE going to their dorms and schools. Some states (i.e. Hawaii) and other countries are requiring quarantines or proofs that visitors or returnees are free of the virus.

                              This virus can and will do terrible things to anyone. I am certain a number of young people, even children, will have lifelong damage from infection by this virus.

                              I don't know what to think of statistics from other countries that showed a lull in cases. At this time it is said many of those are experiencing a second wave or whatever. I would guess that when people are indoors more in the cooler northern months, there will be more cases. Plus here in the states there is the first diagnosed case of dual infection with flu and COVID in one patient.

                              Most everything is functioning poorly in my area, especially on the Oregon side of the border. It is a combination of things but the basic root is "The Virus". Nobody has to do anything or be responsible for anything because....The Virus. On the other hand there is not a cohesive attitude among people about defeating the virus. It looks like many people just bounce from restrictions to easing to recurring restrictions, and get away with as much as they can. I guess nobody wants to 'stay at home'.
                              The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                              • Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post
                                I was amazed by the recent reported comments of Kate Bingham, head of the UK "Vaccine Taskforce". She seemed to be suggesting that in the UK, only those over 50 will be vaccinated (and possibly some other key workers, though she expressed herself very badly if so). The impression she gave is that this was a matter of policy, not just a question of prioritising limited resources. She even went so far as to suggest younger people shouldn't be vaccinated because they might suffer "freak harm". (Does her job description actually include providing ammunition for anti-vaxers??)

                                The idea that you can protect vulnerable people by giving them a vaccine which may be only 60-70% effective, but not attempting to control the spread of the virus through universal vaccination, seemed so bizarre to me that I wondered who this Kate Bingham was and what her academic qualifications were. I thought perhaps she had gone straight into the world of business and/or politics immediately after getting her Ph.D. and was therefore rusty on matters of basic science and arithmetic.

                                It turned out to be worse than that. It seems her only academic scientific qualification is a bachelor's degree in biochemistry, after which she headed to Harvard Business School. Her job is "co-leading biotech investments" for an investment fund:
                                https://svhealthinvestors.com/people/kate-bingham
                                It seems the world of finance is still close to Ms Bingham's heart. The Sunday Times reports:

                                The head of Britain's vaccine taskforce is facing calls to resign after disclosing 'official sensitive' government documents to a $200-a-head conference in America last week.

                                Kate Bingham, a venture capitalist who is married to a Conservative minister, was appointed to the role by Boris Johnson in May despite having no vaccines expertise. She reports directly to him.

                                Last week Bingham, 55, spent an hour explaining the government's strategy to a 'premier webinar and networking event' for women in private equity hosted by a Massachusetts company.

                                According to a video of the event she showed financiers a detailed list of vaccines which the UK government is closely monitoring and could later invest in.

                                https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/v...irms-rtlzrz8v5

                                In response the government issued a statement essentially saying how wonderful she is ("While not specifically a vaccines expert") and claiming she told the audience "little" that they could't deduce for themselves. Let's hope they don't start complaining they've been overcharged!
                                https://www.gov.uk/government/news/a...cine-taskforce

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