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A Chat With A Female Decoy ( 1889 )

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  • A Chat With A Female Decoy ( 1889 )

    South Wales Echo
    July 20, 1889
    ************


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  • #2
    Female Decoys are an interesting subject, Howard. I actually wonder if Alice McKenzie may have been one. Pure speculation of course.

    I recently found this clip:

    The Star
    LONDON. WEDNESDAY, 3 OCTOBER, 1888


    The services of "noses" - that is to say, people who are hand in glove with persons of indifferent character, are frequently called into play, and they are deputed to go to the low lodging-houses and other places that are the resort of low characters, and keep their eyes and ears open for anything likely to give a clue to the individual or individuals wanted. Women often act as "noses."

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    • #3
      Thanks for the clip, Jerry.
      A few days ago another post about female decoys was posted here.....

      May I ask what gives you the impression that Clay Pipe was doing decoy work ?
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      • #4
        Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
        Thanks for the clip, Jerry.
        A few days ago another post about female decoys was posted here.....

        May I ask what gives you the impression that Clay Pipe was doing decoy work ?
        More of a hunch than anything Howard. But, there are other articles suggesting female decoys at the time Alice was killed. Even the date of the article you posted here is July 20th of 1889. Three days after her murder, so we know they were in place at the time.

        Castle Alley was known to be a very rough area. It was said that people usually avoided it unless they lived in there. Alice was in a hurry that night, as if she had to meet somebody. The bars had just closed (Three Crowns for example) and to me the police seemed to be honed in on Castle Alley for some reason. They had two men (Andrews and Allen) splitting the same beat and also a special duty officer set up specifically to patrol the alley. An ex-met police officer was 40 yards from the scene of the crime when it was committed and a fixed man was stationed at the entrance to the alley. Bachert had just received a letter from the ripper stating he would commence operations again.

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        • #5
          Jerry:

          It does sound like a classic set-up....heck of a scenario if true.
          Thanks for the elaboration, buddy.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
            Jerry:

            It does sound like a classic set-up....heck of a scenario if true.
            Thanks for the elaboration, buddy.
            Yes it is. Plus, I forgot to mention, the man that was the watchman in the alley for the barrows was pulled off duty. Isaac Jacobs mentioned this as being of importance.

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            • #7
              Many year ago, I suggested that I thought Eddowes might have been working with police in a capacity similar to this.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Stan Reid View Post
                Many year ago, I suggested that I thought Eddowes might have been working with police in a capacity similar to this.
                Hi Stan,

                Yes, and she got her nose cut off. (No offense to Kate)

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                • #9
                  ...plus Eddowes had those marks under her eyes ( an eye for the cops)
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jerry Dunlop View Post
                    Female Decoys are an interesting subject, Howard. I actually wonder if Alice McKenzie may have been one. Pure speculation of course.

                    I recently found this clip:

                    The Star
                    LONDON. WEDNESDAY, 3 OCTOBER, 1888


                    The services of "noses" - that is to say, people who are hand in glove with persons of indifferent character, are frequently called into play, and they are deputed to go to the low lodging-houses and other places that are the resort of low characters, and keep their eyes and ears open for anything likely to give a clue to the individual or individuals wanted. Women often act as "noses."
                    Hi Jerry. In Ripper Confidential I quote this source and speculate that Polly Nichols may have been a nose. I strongly suspect that Pearly Poll was. As for Polly, she was a difficult woman and yet was still given a nice position at the home of a man connected to the police. The details escape me right at this moment. As Stan mentioned, I know some have suspected Eddowes was a nose.

                    Yours truly,

                    Tom Wescott

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
                      Hi Jerry. In Ripper Confidential I quote this source and speculate that Polly Nichols may have been a nose. I strongly suspect that Pearly Poll was. As for Polly, she was a difficult woman and yet was still given a nice position at the home of a man connected to the police. The details escape me right at this moment. As Stan mentioned, I know some have suspected Eddowes was a nose.

                      Yours truly,

                      Tom Wescott
                      Hi Tom,

                      Thanks for that.

                      Are you referring to the Cowdry's near Battersea? I didn't know there was a police connection with them? I'd be interested in those details if you recall them someday.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jerry Dunlop View Post
                        Hi Tom,

                        Thanks for that.

                        Are you referring to the Cowdry's near Battersea? I didn't know there was a police connection with them? I'd be interested in those details if you recall them someday.
                        Hi Jerry,

                        Tom can correct me if he was thinking of something else, but I think he was referring to the fact that Samuel Cowdry was 'Clerk of Works' to the Met for a large part of his career.

                        http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread....ghlight=Cowdry

                        Gary

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                          Hi Jerry,

                          Tom can correct me if he was thinking of something else, but I think he was referring to the fact that Samuel Cowdry was 'Clerk of Works' to the Met for a large part of his career.

                          http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread....ghlight=Cowdry

                          Gary
                          That's correct, Gary.

                          Yours truly,

                          Tom Wescott

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                          • #14
                            Jerry,
                            If it was a set up, why do you think it failed?
                            Which every way the killer went he must have passed very close to an officer. I remember we sort of discounted climbing over a fence.
                            Did no one see anyone as the records suggests? Or was someone seen leaving?
                            Maybe we have a phantom police witness- seaside home.
                            Just thinking out loud.

                            Steve

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                            • #15
                              I think JtR escaped by going in and out of buildings. He had to walk on streets some of the time but if he was far enough away from a crime maybe he was ignored.

                              I am always touting the Lipski case for background. The defense made a big deal over the unlocked doors in the rooming house, how any sort of criminal could enter and leave. Annie was killed in a similar circumstance. Dutfield's Yard may have afforded similar escape. The apron was left in an entryway. I think once the killer had entered a building he would next be seen exiting and a fellow leaving his presumed abode would not look as suspicious as one fleeing and entering a residence. It was his luck that he was not traced to his first escape channels.

                              There has always been discussion about whether the killer could have hidden in an empty building in Mitre Square. I think this is possible. If the killer locked the door behind himself how would the police know better? The apron seems not to have been found till a while after Kate was discovered.
                              The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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