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First Ripper thread - Hutch suspicion

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  • #16
    Whether anyone thinks Blotchy matched the description of three previous suspects is highly debatable. Personally I don't see the Schwartz suspect killing a woman after he had been seen assaulting her by a witness who got away.
    Second, even McWilliam of the City detective debt. was not convinced that Lawende & Co. had seen Eddowes. The three witnesses never saw her face and the clothes she wore were only 'similar', but even we can see these women all wore similar dark clothing.

    With regards to Hutchinson's involvement, it becomes clear from the press that the police did not dismiss Blotchy as a suspect after Hutchinson came forward. What we read in subsequent papers, for the next few days, is that the police followed up on both suspects. The police do not choose one suspect over another, they investigate all suspects in parallel. Which they seem to have done even in this case.
    Both investigations eventually died out and we read nothing anymore after the end of November.
    Regards, Jon S.
    "
    The theory that the murderer is a lunatic is dispelled by the opinion given to the police by an expert in the treatment of lunacy patients......."If he's insane
    " observed the medical authority, "he's a good deal sharper than those who are not".
    Reynolds Newspaper, 4 Nov. 1888.

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    • #17
      I believe this is the last press report that concerns the investigation of both Blotchy & the Hutchinson suspect, ten days following the murder.
      Both being hunted at the same time, neither being successful.

      The police have not relaxed their endeavours to hunt down the murderer in the slightest degree; but so far they remain without any direct clue. Some of the authorities are inclined to place most reliance upon the statement made by Hutchinson as to his having seen the latest victim with a gentlemanly man of dark complexion, with a dark moustache. Others are disposed to think that the shabby man with a blotchy face and a carrotty moustache described by the witness Mary Ann Cox, is more likely to be the murderer.
      Echo, 19 Nov.
      Regards, Jon S.
      "
      The theory that the murderer is a lunatic is dispelled by the opinion given to the police by an expert in the treatment of lunacy patients......."If he's insane
      " observed the medical authority, "he's a good deal sharper than those who are not".
      Reynolds Newspaper, 4 Nov. 1888.

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      • #18
        Strongly suspect Sailorman Hutchinson was on guard in case Mary Ann Kelly made an escape attempt between 2am and 3am.
        Good chance Blotchy had slipped her a Mickey Finn.
        There was no A Man.
        Bit more to this than meets the eye.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by D.J.Adams View Post
          Strongly suspect Sailorman Hutchinson was on guard in case Mary Ann Kelly made an escape attempt between 2am and 3am.
          Hi DJA -

          Why do you call Hutchinson a 'sailorman'? The Australian sailor theory has been discredited, or are you thinking of someone else?

          There is a frustrating entry in the 1881-1882 UK Registers of Habitual Criminals, referring to an "alias George Hutchinson," listed under John Wilson.

          But when one looks under 'John Wilson,' there are a dozen or more men by that name, none of them listed as being known as George Hutchinson. Maybe cross-referencing it through other sources might solve the mystery.

          Only one of the John Wilsons was released to London, via the R.S.A.D.P. (Royal Society for the Assistance of Discharged Prisoners). He was a sailor, but there is currently no way of knowing if this is the same chap, though further research might clarify it. It's probably one of the others, as many of them are listed as using aliases.


          John Wilson.GIF



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          • #20
            You are thinking of someone else.
            The person I refer to was named George Hutchinson.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by D.J.Adams View Post
              You are thinking of someone else.
              The person I refer to was named George Hutchinson.
              And evidently a groom for sea-horses?

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              • #22
                A batman / military valet which explains his appearance.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by D.J.Adams View Post
                  A batman / military valet which explains his appearance.
                  Did we discuss him over on Casebook?

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                  • #24
                    Sure did.

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                    • #25
                      Regarding the John Wilson sailor mentioned above, I remember that the George Hutchinson I found who was handed in in Southwark Workhouse (born c 1856) was son of a lady called Wilson. Her husband was a Luke Hutchinson but he had deserted her and went to America. She also had a daughter in care called Alice. Both George and Alice were put into care and mum later moved to Tower Hamlets. George signed Alices marriage certificate.

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                      • #26
                        Could this be George Hutchinson ?
                        There is a chap "George Lane" in the Ancestry Calendar of Prisoners in 1885. He was arrested in Witham, Essex which is on the road that goes east from Chelmsford. His aliases include Elijah Hutchinson, and Bullar Hutson that I can find so far. His charges were mostly at Colchester and Chelmsford area one in Kent. He was said to be a Hawker and as Elijah Hutchinson was said to be a Fish Hawker. Almost all charges were for theft that including Horse stealing, Saddle stealing, Watch stealing, Food stealing and more. He was born 1840 Bit of a leap but maybe worth a look....?



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                        • #27
                          Why didn't Hutchinson come forward during previous murderers when suspect's had been identified?

                          And here's another question: there used to be some talk about Joe Fleming (Evans) being Hutch. Has this idea gained any more traction since it was suggested years ago?

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                          • #28
                            I have doubts as to whether MJK was a ripper victim but her murder was made to look as if it was. Most of what we know about MJK came from Joseph Barnett, but what if he was her killer? What if he was her pimp and not her boyfriend as he claimed? It would stand to reason that if she wanted to get out of prostitution he would not be very happy and this would be a motive for her murder. Checking prosecutions for pimping (Living off of immoral earnings) would be a start and investigating any links between Barnett, Hutchinson and McCarthy.

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                            • #29
                              I think Mary was killed by a deranged killer, JtR or otherwise. Too much was done to her remains. Whoever did it was seriously insane.

                              Otherwise, we are told Mary's rent was due and there are witness reports suggesting she had more than one client that last early morning, yet no money was reported found in her possessions. None of JtR's victims had any coins though sex workers usually demand payment first. Maybe the killer paid and then robbed them. (Gary Ridgway, the Green River killer objected to having to pay for the women's services.)

                              But if Mary owed a pimp, I suppose he could have collected her rent money and maybe killed her for not making enough. So far as I know we still do not have a good explanation of how Mary got so far behind in rent and why she was allowed to owe so much.

                              If Barnett was much of a pimp I would think police would have known and he would have been seriously investigated as JtR.
                              The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
                                I think Mary was killed by a deranged killer, JtR or otherwise. Too much was done to her remains. Whoever did it was seriously insane.

                                Otherwise, we are told Mary's rent was due and there are witness reports suggesting she had more than one client that last early morning, yet no money was reported found in her possessions. None of JtR's victims had any coins though sex workers usually demand payment first. Maybe the killer paid and then robbed them. (Gary Ridgway, the Green River killer objected to having to pay for the women's services.)

                                But if Mary owed a pimp, I suppose he could have collected her rent money and maybe killed her for not making enough. So far as I know we still do not have a good explanation of how Mary got so far behind in rent and why she was allowed to owe so much.

                                If Barnett was much of a pimp I would think police would have known and he would have been seriously investigated as JtR.
                                Hi anna
                                agree. There is no evidence Barnett was her pimp-and everything we know about him seems to point to him being her boyfriend and a rather caring and kind one at that-although it does seem that Mary was the one that broke it off. And I think its no question that she was killed by the ripper-it takes a very rare bird indeed to post mortem mutilate like that and remove organs. But i dont rule out Barnett being the ripper and to me a couple things may point in his direction-first of all I think the circs show that Mary knew her killer and vice versus, and significant others are de facto suspects until cleared . Plus her heart was removed so theres that weird coincidence (barnett being the spurred lover).
                                But I think Hutch makes a better killer of Mary for many reasons, not the least being he was engaged in stalking type behavior around the time of her murder.

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