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First Ripper thread - Hutch suspicion

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post

    Possibly it was Christer, on this thread, Post #23?

    Not A Horse Slaughterer ( October 2, 1888 ) - Jack The Ripper Forums - Ripperology For The 21st Century (jtrforums.com)

    Unfortunately, being the world's capitol for such crimes, we have more examples than just the Briley brothers. There have been several. One particular appalling pair was known as The Spahalski Twins.
    Thanks, RJ, that’s the one I was thinking of.

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  • R. J. Palmer
    replied
    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    I do recall that when I was interested in the Tomkins brothers as possible suspects Howard came up with an example of 2/3 young American brothers who were jointly involved in a series of murders. I can’t remember the details.
    Possibly it was Christer, on this thread, Post #23?

    Not A Horse Slaughterer ( October 2, 1888 ) - Jack The Ripper Forums - Ripperology For The 21st Century (jtrforums.com)

    Unfortunately, being the world's capitol for such crimes, we have more examples than just the Briley brothers. There have been several. One particular appalling pair was known as The Spahalski Twins.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    I do recall that when I was interested in the Tomkins brothers as possible suspects Howard came up with an example of 2/3 young American brothers who were jointly involved in a series of murders. I can’t remember the details.

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  • Anna Morris
    replied
    There have been pairs of serial killers but I do not think JtR had a partner. I suspect he got liquored up at the pub, wandered the streets around closing time & attacked women who got in his path. I imagine he had a cunning sense of the area, not necessarily technical knowledge of police beats. The Lipski trial on the Old Bailey site gave me a good idea of how the likes of JtR could seem to be a disappearing phantom of the foggy, dark streets. People who intimately knew the streets knew what buildings with rented rooms could be entered and exited. Think Hanbury Street and Anniw Chapman.

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  • Mark Huggins
    replied
    It seems unlikely to me that Jack had an accomplice. If you look at the history of serial killers of the nature of Jack I don't believe any of them used accomplices? By their very nature psychopaths are usually loners. Back then in the dingy streets of Whitechapel you could literally get away with murder if you blended in. Perhaps if the motive had been robbery a lookout might of been beneficial, but as we know that was not the case, Jack was a deranged killer (putting it mildy), and as his motive appeared no more complex that sexually induced carnage I cannot imagine what an accomplice would have achieved other than to make him exceedingly vulnerable to being ratted on as his crimes became more and more deranged.
    No he was alone imo. He lived locally and knew the area very well like the back of his hand. He was also aware of the clockwork like regime of the bobbies on their beats, and knew exactly what window of opportunity that offered. He didn't need to rely on a lookout as doing so would have essentially meant he had a witness who could easily turn against him for a reward. Besides how on earth would Jack have talked anybody into helping his atrocious crimes? It would have had to be a fellow psychopath and they are extremely rare people thank goodness.

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  • Abby Normal
    replied
    Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
    I think Mary was killed by a deranged killer, JtR or otherwise. Too much was done to her remains. Whoever did it was seriously insane.

    Otherwise, we are told Mary's rent was due and there are witness reports suggesting she had more than one client that last early morning, yet no money was reported found in her possessions. None of JtR's victims had any coins though sex workers usually demand payment first. Maybe the killer paid and then robbed them. (Gary Ridgway, the Green River killer objected to having to pay for the women's services.)

    But if Mary owed a pimp, I suppose he could have collected her rent money and maybe killed her for not making enough. So far as I know we still do not have a good explanation of how Mary got so far behind in rent and why she was allowed to owe so much.

    If Barnett was much of a pimp I would think police would have known and he would have been seriously investigated as JtR.
    Hi anna
    agree. There is no evidence Barnett was her pimp-and everything we know about him seems to point to him being her boyfriend and a rather caring and kind one at that-although it does seem that Mary was the one that broke it off. And I think its no question that she was killed by the ripper-it takes a very rare bird indeed to post mortem mutilate like that and remove organs. But i dont rule out Barnett being the ripper and to me a couple things may point in his direction-first of all I think the circs show that Mary knew her killer and vice versus, and significant others are de facto suspects until cleared . Plus her heart was removed so theres that weird coincidence (barnett being the spurred lover).
    But I think Hutch makes a better killer of Mary for many reasons, not the least being he was engaged in stalking type behavior around the time of her murder.

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  • Anna Morris
    replied
    I think Mary was killed by a deranged killer, JtR or otherwise. Too much was done to her remains. Whoever did it was seriously insane.

    Otherwise, we are told Mary's rent was due and there are witness reports suggesting she had more than one client that last early morning, yet no money was reported found in her possessions. None of JtR's victims had any coins though sex workers usually demand payment first. Maybe the killer paid and then robbed them. (Gary Ridgway, the Green River killer objected to having to pay for the women's services.)

    But if Mary owed a pimp, I suppose he could have collected her rent money and maybe killed her for not making enough. So far as I know we still do not have a good explanation of how Mary got so far behind in rent and why she was allowed to owe so much.

    If Barnett was much of a pimp I would think police would have known and he would have been seriously investigated as JtR.

    Leave a comment:


  • Phillip Walton
    replied
    I have doubts as to whether MJK was a ripper victim but her murder was made to look as if it was. Most of what we know about MJK came from Joseph Barnett, but what if he was her killer? What if he was her pimp and not her boyfriend as he claimed? It would stand to reason that if she wanted to get out of prostitution he would not be very happy and this would be a motive for her murder. Checking prosecutions for pimping (Living off of immoral earnings) would be a start and investigating any links between Barnett, Hutchinson and McCarthy.

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  • Prash Ganendran
    replied
    Why didn't Hutchinson come forward during previous murderers when suspect's had been identified?

    And here's another question: there used to be some talk about Joe Fleming (Evans) being Hutch. Has this idea gained any more traction since it was suggested years ago?

    Leave a comment:


  • Pat Marshall
    replied
    Could this be George Hutchinson ?
    There is a chap "George Lane" in the Ancestry Calendar of Prisoners in 1885. He was arrested in Witham, Essex which is on the road that goes east from Chelmsford. His aliases include Elijah Hutchinson, and Bullar Hutson that I can find so far. His charges were mostly at Colchester and Chelmsford area one in Kent. He was said to be a Hawker and as Elijah Hutchinson was said to be a Fish Hawker. Almost all charges were for theft that including Horse stealing, Saddle stealing, Watch stealing, Food stealing and more. He was born 1840 Bit of a leap but maybe worth a look....?



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  • Pat Marshall
    replied
    Regarding the John Wilson sailor mentioned above, I remember that the George Hutchinson I found who was handed in in Southwark Workhouse (born c 1856) was son of a lady called Wilson. Her husband was a Luke Hutchinson but he had deserted her and went to America. She also had a daughter in care called Alice. Both George and Alice were put into care and mum later moved to Tower Hamlets. George signed Alices marriage certificate.

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  • D.J.Adams
    replied
    Sure did.

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by D.J.Adams View Post
    A batman / military valet which explains his appearance.
    Did we discuss him over on Casebook?

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  • D.J.Adams
    replied
    A batman / military valet which explains his appearance.

    Leave a comment:


  • R. J. Palmer
    replied
    Originally posted by D.J.Adams View Post
    You are thinking of someone else.
    The person I refer to was named George Hutchinson.
    And evidently a groom for sea-horses?

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