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Frederick Wildbore- Whitehall Torso Witness

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  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
    Gareth do you know if she passed her other course?
    She didn't attend those lectures, I presume. Preclinical medical students have a fairly crammed time-table. It was because I was sharing digs with two first-year medical students that I got to hear about this débacle. The last I heard about it was that the young lady was trying to get officially enrolled on the medical course the following academic year (like I say, she impressed her peers, so was no slouch), but whether she was successful in this I don't know.

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  • Anna Morris
    replied
    Great work, Jerry!

    As to whether someone's mind would hold for decades after a dismemberment murder, yes. As DNA solves more and more cold cases it is astounding how many horrific beyond description murders were "one-off", so to speak. The killers went ahead, married, had children, sometimes were community leaders. A common thread in these cases seems to be young men, less than twenty years old, impulsively doing the unthinkable, then going on with life. Who knows what their minds were saturated with before they acted out the unforgivable.

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  • Robert Linford
    replied
    Gareth do you know if she passed her other course?

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  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
    My theory is that Martha had so many kids, Frederick was able to wander in occasionally and sit down for a dinner without anyone noticing.
    Reminds me of an incident at my university, where a female student turned up to all the lectures at the medical school, made friends and, by all accounts, impressed her fellow students. It was only when it came to the end of term exams that it was discovered that, although she had a genuine student pass and library card, she was registered on another course entirely. She probably got away with it for as long as she did because we had such a large medical faculty.

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  • Robert Linford
    replied
    Hi Jerry


    The 1861 is indeed a mystery. The Frederick John Wildbore born (or registered) at Wisbech, corresponds with the lodger. On the GRO he is "Wildbone" and registered at Wisbech Union, so maybe that explains his uncertainty as to his origins. His mother's name is "Young."


    How he could also have been born at Hickley with mother Davenport is a puzzle. My theory is that Martha had so many kids, Frederick was able to wander in occasionally and sit down for a dinner without anyone noticing.

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  • Jerry Dunlop
    replied
    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    Wandsworth, of course, is where the Cowdrys lived.

    Wasn't the confluence of the Wandle and the Thames suggested as a possible point of entry for some of the body parts? (I'm a bit rusty on this).
    I believe it was for the 1873 or 1874 case. Wow Gary, the Cowdry's were close to this address too. I didn't realize that's where they lived.

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Wandsworth, of course, is where the Cowdrys lived.

    Wasn't the confluence of the Wandle and the Thames suggested as a possible point of entry for some of the body parts? (I'm a bit rusty on this).

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  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Jerry Dunlop View Post
    Thanks Gary. Doesn't Wandsworth cover that area? Clapham Junction,that is.
    According to Google Maps, Maysoule Road is only half a mile away from Wandsworth Town station.

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  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Jerry Dunlop View Post
    A point against him, is the possibility that he lived to age 79. Not sure if one's mind would hold out from all that dismemberment that long?
    Maybe the motives for disposing of dismembered bodies were no longer an issue, e.g. (wild speculation alert) he found contentment in marriage/fatherhood and stopped having affairs with women who blackmailed him. Perhaps he was responsible for only one of the torso cases, and only then for a very specific reason, e.g. to shut someone up.

    Incidentally, the above might apply to any perpetrator. Doesn't have to be Wildbore.

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  • Jerry Dunlop
    replied
    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    Hi Jerry,

    The births of his children Ellen (1888) and Frederick (1890) were registered in Wandsworth.


    Gary
    Thanks Gary. Doesn't Wandsworth cover that area? Clapham Junction,that is.

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Hi Jerry,

    The births of his children Ellen (1888) and Frederick (1890) were registered in Wandsworth.


    Gary

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  • Jerry Dunlop
    replied
    Yes Debs, the more I got into it, the more interesting it became. It kind of fit in with some other research I had done in the past. i.e Meiklejohn and Dennis Lynch.

    Thank you Gareth. We meet again.

    I forgot to mention another thing in this guys favor as a person of interest. Carpenters are pretty handy with a saw. A point against him, is the possibility that he lived to age 79. Not sure if one's mind would hold out from all that dismemberment that long? And, he had several children and a wife. I guess a locked shed in the back yard would take care of that, though. A carpenter would surely have a workshop, would he not?

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  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
    Interesting stuff, Jerry!
    Seconded. Quite fascinating.

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  • Jerry Dunlop
    replied
    Where this really gets interesting is when you throw John Arnold into the mix. John Arnold was a newsvendor peddling his news at the Charing Cross Post Office. This would be directly across the street from the Whitehall discovery. When he first broke his story of the Pinchin Street murder (2 days early) he was asked where he got his information. His first statement was he had heard it from a police inspector in Whitechapel Road. Later he altered that to an ex-member of the metropolitan police. Arnold happened to be drinking at the King Lud public house and it was supposedly when he left the pub he encountered this informant.


    That's where John Meiklejohn comes in. John Meiklejohn was known to frequent the Strand and Fleet street areas. In testimony in his Old Bailey trial for turf-fraud in 1877 this was said: "No"—it was at twelve at noon on 28th September I saw Meiklejohn at the King Lud—I had never before used the public-house to which we went from the Kentish Town station—if I were taken there I could point it out—the landlord noticed our conversation, and put in the word Newmarket, and I said something about cattle market— So Meiklejohn was familiar with this pub and had used it for shady dealings in the past.

    Meiklejohns Private Investigative Office was located at 45, Heaver Road, Falcon Road, Battersea. Using the distance tool in google maps, Meiklejohns office was about 600 yards from the residence of Frederick Wildbore (map below). Meiklejohn, as most know, was a disgraced former police inspector for the Metropolitan Police detective force.

    Here is the map showing the location of Meiklejohn's office on Heaver Road, Falcon Road and Wildbore further down on Maysoule.

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  • Debra Arif
    replied
    Interesting stuff, Jerry!

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