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Frederick Wildbore- Whitehall Torso Witness

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  • #16
    Great work, Jerry!

    As to whether someone's mind would hold for decades after a dismemberment murder, yes. As DNA solves more and more cold cases it is astounding how many horrific beyond description murders were "one-off", so to speak. The killers went ahead, married, had children, sometimes were community leaders. A common thread in these cases seems to be young men, less than twenty years old, impulsively doing the unthinkable, then going on with life. Who knows what their minds were saturated with before they acted out the unforgivable.
    The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
      Gareth do you know if she passed her other course?
      She didn't attend those lectures, I presume. Preclinical medical students have a fairly crammed time-table. It was because I was sharing digs with two first-year medical students that I got to hear about this débacle. The last I heard about it was that the young lady was trying to get officially enrolled on the medical course the following academic year (like I say, she impressed her peers, so was no slouch), but whether she was successful in this I don't know.
      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

      "Suche Nullen"
      (F. Nietzsche)

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
        Maybe the motives for disposing of dismembered bodies were no longer an issue, e.g. (wild speculation alert) he found contentment in marriage/fatherhood and stopped having affairs with women who blackmailed him. Perhaps he was responsible for only one of the torso cases, and only then for a very specific reason, e.g. to shut someone up.

        Incidentally, the above might apply to any perpetrator. Doesn't have to be Wildbore.
        Thanks Sam,

        Your points are well taken, although, I have to go with the opinion of the authorities of the time that thought the 4 cases (1887-1889) were connected until further evidence proves any different.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
          Hi Jerry


          The 1861 is indeed a mystery. The Frederick John Wildbore born (or registered) at Wisbech, corresponds with the lodger. On the GRO he is "Wildbone" and registered at Wisbech Union, so maybe that explains his uncertainty as to his origins. His mother's name is "Young."


          How he could also have been born at Hickley with mother Davenport is a puzzle. My theory is that Martha had so many kids, Frederick was able to wander in occasionally and sit down for a dinner without anyone noticing.
          Thanks Robert,

          It's puzzling! That's why I left it out for now. I was wondering if he were a troubled child and was sent to live with that other family in the 1861 census just as he was living with a relative (Michael Wildbore) in the 1871 census where it lists him as nephew.

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          • #20
            Jerry, there's a couple of items on Frederick Augustus Wildbore, including a photo : "Lincolnshire Standard and Boston Guardian" 1928 and 1931.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
              Great work, Jerry!

              As to whether someone's mind would hold for decades after a dismemberment murder, yes. As DNA solves more and more cold cases it is astounding how many horrific beyond description murders were "one-off", so to speak. The killers went ahead, married, had children, sometimes were community leaders. A common thread in these cases seems to be young men, less than twenty years old, impulsively doing the unthinkable, then going on with life. Who knows what their minds were saturated with before they acted out the unforgivable.
              Thanks Anna,

              Very true. I was taken back to the boys of the Cleveland Street Scandal who, for the most part, ended up married and living seemingly 'normal' lives. So, yes, I guess no one can be ruled out for those reasons alone.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                Jerry, there's a couple of items on Frederick Augustus Wildbore, including a photo : "Lincolnshire Standard and Boston Guardian" 1928 and 1931.
                Requires a subscription, I suppose? I only have a sub to newspaperarchives.com currently. Thanks for letting me know, though. When I get a minute I plan on seeing if there is a connection between the two men. I'm assuming there is as IIRC they both had Lincolnshire backrounds. There is also a Shoreditch surgeon by the same name (Frederick Wildbore, b.1822) that hailed from there as well. (Tilton, Lincolnshire)

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Jerry Dunlop View Post
                  Thanks Sam,

                  Your points are well taken, although, I have to go with the opinion of the authorities of the time that thought the 4 cases (1887-1889) were connected until further evidence proves any different.
                  Me too, Jerry. Expert opinion on the mode of dismemberment through the joints, plus the fact that three dismemberment murders with disposal sites in and around the same area of the Thames in the space of a couple of years are unique, despite claims otherwise (without proof).

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Jerry Dunlop View Post
                    Your points are well taken, although, I have to go with the opinion of the authorities of the time that thought the 4 cases (1887-1889) were connected until further evidence proves any different.
                    Thanks, Jerry. Well, I did say "perhaps" My main point, in any case, was speculating as to why a man who lived to be 79 stopped when he did - namely, that he might have found contentment in his marriage. That could apply as much to a serial philanderer as to a "one-off" torso killer.
                    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                    "Suche Nullen"
                    (F. Nietzsche)

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      The 1911 census shows a daughter, Frances Sarah Pomphrey, living with him in Maysoule Street. Age 29 (1882), married, b. Tottenham. There is also a granddaughter and of the same last name (Pomphrey) and a grandson, last name Grist. No husband for Frances in the census and no wife shown for Wildbore at that time. 6 additional children are at the residence bearing his last name, 4 girls and 2 boys. So 7 kids including Pomphrey. All his children born in Battersea (or Wandsworth possibly as Gary pointed out) except Pomphrey.

                      Wonder if he was living in Tottenham in 1882?

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                      • #26
                        Hi Jerry


                        Difficult to manipulate the items, but this is just about all of it.
                        Attached Files

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                          Hi Jerry


                          Difficult to manipulate the items, but this is just about all of it.
                          Thank you, Robert. This article has good information. Looks like his son A.J Wildbore took over the building business. Not sure if there is a connection with the Whitehall torso witness and this guy yet, but every bit of information like this sure helps. Thanks for posting it.

                          By the way, this man was living nearby at Branksome Road, Acre Lane, just east of Clapham Common.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Jerry Dunlop View Post
                            The 1911 census shows a daughter, Frances Sarah Pomphrey, living with him in Maysoule Street. Age 29 (1882), married, b. Tottenham. There is also a granddaughter and of the same last name (Pomphrey) and a grandson, last name Grist. No husband for Frances in the census and no wife shown for Wildbore at that time. 6 additional children are at the residence bearing his last name, 4 girls and 2 boys. So 7 kids including Pomphrey. All his children born in Battersea (or Wandsworth possibly as Gary pointed out) except Pomphrey.

                            Wonder if he was living in Tottenham in 1882?
                            He certainly was in 1881 according to the Ancestry tree from where I obtained the Wandsworth info.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Jerry Dunlop View Post
                              Call me crazy, but, here is a very possible route this man took to work at the Police Building in 1888. If I'm not mistaken the construction went on until the opening of the building in 1890? This route puts him across the Albert Bridge, next to Battersea Park, past the Shelly Estate, past Chappel and Company where the arm was found and possibly crossing paths with Elizabeth Jackson until he arrived in the vaults of Scotland Yard where a week before the discovery of the torso there, he had been actively working in the vault as a carpenter. The Whitehall victim's arm was found in a timber wharf which was along this route.

                              One last thing. Stewart Evans and Keith Skinner found a letter dated October 6,1888 addressed to Sir Charles Warren at Scotland Yard signed "The Whore Killer". Here is a link to that letter.

                              https://books.google.com/books?id=Rc...letter&f=false

                              In the letter he says he intends to kill at Clapham Junction Commons. That location was right near this man's house and the letter was received 4 days after the discovery of the Whitehall torso.


                              Sorry late to the party so to speak Jerry.

                              Very interesting opening to the thread.

                              Steve

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                              • #30
                                Very thought provoking thread.

                                The Route in particular looks very suggestive.

                                So we now need a motive I guess.

                                Time for further research, I would have a go myself but am snowed under with other stuff at present, posting at the moment is a light release from that.


                                Steve

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