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Frederick Wildbore- Whitehall Torso Witness

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  • #61
    One reason why the idea of Jack hanging strips of flesh around Kelly's room isn't noted in the retelling is that it didn't happen. It was a myth, entirely unsupported by reliable sources.
    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

    "Suche Nullen"
    (F. Nietzsche)

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    • #62
      Jerry,

      Did you notice that Wildbore's 1911 occupation of House Carpenter to Res(?) continues in the next column of Metropn Police New Scotland Yard?

      Gary

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      • #63
        Or perhaps, Sam Flynn, it was too graphic for the delicate sensibilities of the average Joe. All too often in this case we see old fashioned cops defacing, destroying, and withholding evidence in the name of protecting the public. If I'm wrong, so be it, but I need more to go on than just your claim.
        "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." -Arthur Conan Doyle

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        • #64
          Originally posted by QJ Coy View Post
          Or perhaps, Sam Flynn, it was too graphic for the delicate sensibilities of the average Joe. All too often in this case we see old fashioned cops defacing, destroying, and withholding evidence in the name of protecting the public. If I'm wrong, so be it, but I need more to go on than just your claim.

          Hi

          If you believe strips were hanging please point to the primary sources which support this?


          Cheers

          Steve

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          • #65
            It's very easy, google "Mary Kelly strips of flesh hanging from nails." I will not play the game of what link you may think is reputable or not. Maybe you can provide your "reputable" link that expressly says strips of flesh were NOT hanging from nails? It seems to me the burden is on you since you want to challenge it.
            "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." -Arthur Conan Doyle

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by QJ Coy View Post
              It's very easy, google "Mary Kelly strips of flesh hanging from nails." I will not play the game of what link you may think is reputable or not. Maybe you can provide your "reputable" link that expressly says strips of flesh were NOT hanging from nails? It seems to me the burden is on you since you want to challenge it.
              All of Mary Kelly's flesh was accounted for in Dr Thomas Bond's report, and he was not only present at the scene but also conducted the autopsy. Kelly's flesh and internal organs were either on the bed, tucked under her body, or deposited on the bedside table. Unless Kelly had a conjoined twin, whose bits were cut up and hung on nails elsewhere in the room, that's all there was.

              The report of the "strips of flesh" hanging on nails or draped over chairs comes from a single source, an interview with Chief Inspector Henry Moore about a year after Kelly's murder. His testimony is evidently unreliable in light of what Bond's detailed reports tell us. He certainly gets other things wrong: "He cut the skeleton so clean of flesh that when I got here I could hardly tell whether it was a man or a woman. He hung the different parts of the body on nails and over the backs of chairs. It must have taken him an hour and a half in all. And when he was ready to go he found the door was jammed and had to make his escape through the larger of those two windows."

              From memory, I don't recall that Henry Moore attended the crime scene Miller's Court, so he may have even have been bullshitting about his being there. Even if he were, he was demonstrably mistaken about the hanging strips of flesh, and it's highly unlikely - and almost certainly untrue - that the killer escaped through the window.
              Kind regards, Sam Flynn

              "Suche Nullen"
              (F. Nietzsche)

              Comment


              • #67
                Thank you, Sam, that's how it's done. I get what you're saying, it's a credibility thing, saying something ridiculous like escaping through the window disqualifies anything he says. Only in a court of law or legal proceeding. And this case would never be tried so it's really a matter of individual belief and doesn't fall under the same rules imo. You say Bond accounts for all the flesh but who's to say that the hanging flesh wasn't removed and placed on the table with the other flesh by the same kind of smug protective righteousness displayed by officials when erasing the Goulston Street graffiti? If you can't believe the Chief Inspector because of one wild statement and offer a non sequitur ('Unless Kelly had a conjoined twin'), why should any official be believed about anything? The doctors couldn't even agree on if Emma Smith was a Ripper victim, with Bond claiming she was. As we know Emma is not considered a Ripper victim, so following your logic how can Bond be trusted to record what was hanging around Mary Kelly's room? It's all about following your gut. As to the content of my original theory, other than the flesh thing, what did you think? What do you think about the Torso Killer?
                "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." -Arthur Conan Doyle

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by QJ Coy View Post
                  It's very easy, google "Mary Kelly strips of flesh hanging from nails." I will not play the game of what link you may think is reputable or not. Maybe you can provide your "reputable" link that expressly says strips of flesh were NOT hanging from nails? It seems to me the burden is on you since you want to challenge it.

                  Very sorry but you are the one challenging what the primary sources say, the burden is on yourself if you are going to do that.
                  Any Theory needs to be supported by some sort of evidence/source, it appears you do not wish to do this, its not a game as you claim, its how research works.
                  Therefore in this case, I and most others use the inquest reports in the press.
                  Google brings up everything written and posted, much of it pure nonsense on the subject.

                  steve

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                    Jerry,

                    Did you notice that Wildbore's 1911 occupation of House Carpenter to Res(?) continues in the next column of Metropn Police New Scotland Yard?

                    Gary
                    Gary,

                    The lds record didn't show any other columns. Do you think it means he was privately working for Scotland Yard as a carpenter?

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Jerry Dunlop View Post
                      Gary,

                      The lds record didn't show any other columns. Do you think it means he was privately working for Scotland Yard as a carpenter?
                      Sounds like he was either self-employed and worked solely (or mainly) for the Met or he was actually on the payroll

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                        Sounds like he was either self-employed and worked solely (or mainly) for the Met or he was actually on the payroll
                        Silly me. The 1911 census specifies 'worker', as does the 1901. In 1891 he was listed as 'employed'.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by QJ Coy View Post
                          As to the content of my original theory, other than the flesh thing, what did you think? What do you think about the Torso Killer?
                          I'm learning more about the subject on a daily basis, QJ. I'll get back to you on that later, perhaps, when my prejudices about the Torso case have had more time to solidify

                          For now, I've responded to your comments on Mary Kelly by opening a more appropriate thread.
                          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                          "Suche Nullen"
                          (F. Nietzsche)

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Wildbore's father, Francis, appears to have been a hotel/inn keeper who ran* establishments in both Wisbech and Stamford.

                            That little discrepancy (W vs S birth) had bothered me.


                            *into the ground apparently.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                              Wildbore's father, Francis, appears to have been a hotel/inn keeper who ran* establishments in both Wisbech and Stamford.

                              That little discrepancy (W vs S birth) had bothered me.


                              *into the ground apparently.
                              Thanks Gary,

                              So you are saying both 1861 entries in Wisbech and Stamford are the same person as the Frederick in question here? And then in 1871 he is living with aunt and uncle in Keyham. I wonder what happened to the rest of the family by 1871?

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Jerry Dunlop View Post
                                Thanks Gary,

                                So you are saying both 1861 entries in Wisbech and Stamford are the same person as the Frederick in question here? And then in 1871 he is living with aunt and uncle in Keyham. I wonder what happened to the rest of the family by 1871?
                                I had a niggling doubt before because of the different POBs, but now I'm of the opinion that they are the same. I'll have a look tomorrow to see if I can find out what happened to the family.

                                I doubt this has any significance, but I noticed today that Cowdry's father was also a carpenter.

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