Discussing Robert Clack's "Murder,Death,& The Lodging House"

[Howard Brown]

Thread to discuss Robert's work on the murder of Mary Ann Austin from back in 2005.
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[Rob Clack]

Here's a drawing of Mary Ann Austin from Lloyds Weekly News, Sunday 9 June 1901

Mary Ann Austin from Lloyds Weekly News Sunday 9 June 1901.jpg

Hopefully one day I will be able to update my Mary Ann Austin article as I've found some new stuff.
Mainly I've been trying to find out a bit more about her past.

I believe she was born
Mary Ann Mealey c1874
Her father was Anthony Mealey and mother was Elizabeth.

In 1881 they were living at 7 Chippenham Place, Willesden.
Anthony Mealey was 51 and a General Labouer
Elizabeth Mealey was 47 a shop keeper
there was also a older brother and sister:
Henry aged 12
Naomi aged 10
Mary Ann was aged 8 in the census and was born in Chelsea, and there was also a younger brother
Frederick aged 6.

I had a bit of trouble finding her in the 1891 Census but I believe she is listed as Emily Mealey aged 19 at the Shaftesbury Arms, Shaftesbury Street in Shoreditch, she is listed as a domestic servant born in Chelsea so details basically match.

Mary Ann married William Austin 10 December 1893 her age is listed as 19. Her father was deceased and her brother Henry was a witness.
The wedding took place in the Parish Church, Battersea.
Rob

[Robert Linford]

Rob, Naomi's story looks a sad one. As far as I can make out, she married a man called Henry Letherbarrow and they had four children, but she died giving birth to the fourth. The child also died. By 1911 two of the other three children were in Lambeth workhouse. I think Henry Letherbarrow remarries a little later.

[Rob Clack]

Thanks for that Robert. I haven't had much chance to dig into the other members of the family (Debs has been twisting my arm lately )

This is Mary Ann Mealeys signature from the marriage record to William Austin

Mary Ann Austins Marriage record.jpg

Rob

[Howard Brown]

Bump up.

Have any of the members ever entertained the thought that Austin was murdered by the Ripper..despite the decade long gap between Coles ( as a point of reference) to her murder date ?

[Rob Clack]

I don't think anybody cares Howard

I don't believe the Ripper did murder Austin.
I would like to know more about Annie Milwards wounds. If there was a connection between the murder of Mary Ann Austin and the events in 1888 I think it would be with Milward.

Rob

[Howard Brown]

Rob:

I'll make 'em care,by God ! I'll move into their neighborhoods if they don't start caring !

Rob...I saw a report yesterday in the newspapers which makes me think of the Austin murder...a reporter went back into the neighborhood..I believe it was on Dorset Street...several years after the Austin murder....and the reporter's guide, a young guy, told the reporter that a number of the local people still harbored the fear that the Ripper would return one day. This was probably, I'm guessing here, about 1928 or 1929. I should have stashed the article away.

Hopefully Natalie and Debra will offer their views later on. I believe Natalie entertained the thought that perhaps this murder ( Austin) was a Ripper murder.

I would have to agree with you here,Rob. I think its unlikely that this murder was committed by JTR.

[Robert Linford]

I think Dan Norder, who believed Jack was a psychopath, entertained the possibility of Jack killing for years after 1888, maybe as far ahead as the Kitty Ronan (Roman?) murder, but I would have thought it unlikely.

[Jeff Leahy]

I think Dan Norder, who believed Jack was a psychopath, entertained the possibility of Jack killing for years after 1888, maybe as far ahead as the Kitty Ronan (Roman?) murder, but I would have thought it unlikely.

I'm certain Dan Norder said many things but our view of jtR as a psychophath or phsychotic serial killer is paramount. The ripper took huge chances, and he was a psychotic....schizophrenic.

Pirate

[Rob Clack]

There's this chap here who i have been trying to find out a bit more Thomas Brown/Alfred Hickley. He confessed to Mary Ann Austins Murder and one of the Ripper murders. I don't think he did, I think he was a fruit and nut job but it would be nice to find out for definite.

The Eastern Post, Saturday 2 May 1903

Thomas Brown The Eastern Post Saturday 2 May 1903 01.jpg

Thomas Brown The Eastern Post Saturday 2 May 1903 02.jpg

Thomas Brown The Eastern Post Saturday 2 May 1903 03.jpg

Thomas Brown The Eastern Post Saturday 2 May 1903 04.jpg

Thomas Brown The Eastern Post Saturday 2 May 1903 05.jpg

Rob

[Howard Brown]

Thanks very much for these articles Rob.
This Thomas Brown ( no relation) is a piece of work.
I've read something along the lines of this...the mention of electricity rang a bell...not sure if it was Brown.

He would have been 23 during the AOT.

[Howard Brown]

Another reference to Thomas Brown, mindreader...all of which covered in Rob Clack's previous material.

Daily Mail
April 27,1903
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[Gary Barnett]

Mary Ann's parents were married at St. Dunstan's, Stepney on June 7th, 1868. At the time they were both living at 70, Globe Road. Her mother was Elizabeth Naomi (nee) Young.

On the marriage cert Elizabeth's father, John, is described as a chemist, but on her baptism record he is a labourer.

By 1871, the family were living at 30, Lawrence Street, Chelsea. They were still at that address when Mary Ann was christened at St Luke's Chelsea (CofE) on July 18th, 1876. She had been born on December 28th, 1873.

Together with Rob's find of an 'Emily' Mealey living in Shoreditch in 1891, this suggests Mary Ann may have had a connection to the East End before she married William Austin.

[Gary Barnett]

Has anyone ever come across a copy of Tom Divall's memoirs Scoundrels and Scallywags (and some Honest Men)?

I'm curious to know if he mentions the Austin case.

I believe that as a young PC Fred Wensley was one of the first officers to call at 35, Dorset Street after the murder, but he doesn't mention it in his book.

[Rob Clack]

Has anyone ever come across a copy of Tom Divall's memoirs Scoundrels and Scallywags (and some Honest Men)?

I'm curious to know if he mentions the Austin case.

I believe that as a young PC Fred Wensley was one of the first officers to call at 35, Dorset Street after the murder, but he doesn't mention it in his book.

I have a copy and he doesn't. I specifically bought the book to see if he mentions the case. As far as I am aware it's not mentioned in any policeman's memoirs.

Rob