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***Georgina Green : Whitechapel Stabbing Victim May 1888***

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  • #16
    Most cases of domestic assault which involved knives which I read about every day...not some days...but every day, in British newspapers, one finds the perpetrator being eventually apprehended...and cases of street assaults involving knives,women, and a man with criminal intent are rarer than hen's teeth..when the domestic angle is factored in. Domestic assaults committed with a knife occur in the home. Domestic abusers are not as likely to kick the hell out of their spouse if another man is in the vicinity, unless he has an advantage ( weapon other than his hands).

    Killing or assaulting one's spouse/partner indoors gives the domestic-perp much more time to come up with a bullshit story to tell the police ( "I didn't mean it..."she fell on the knife"..."me n' the missus were just goofing around and..." )....When one reads the stories presented by men who either killed or assaulted their wives with knives, remember to read what excuses they gave when their excuses are mentioned in the article.

    We can't claim, as much as I admittedly want to, that this was an assault committed on someone other than the perpetrator's "better half" at that point in time.

    Yet I have a strong feeling that this was at least a murder attempt on a woman 'early yesterday morning' indicating to me that she wasn't out singing Christmas carols.

    If a description of the perpetrator was ever unearthed, that might be something,wouldn't it ?
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    • #17
      Nina just mentioned something which might be useful or worthy of consideration.
      When Chapman-witness, Mrs. Long, was out and about 'early in the morning' on Hanbury Street, the purpose behind her being on the street was mentioned...to meet her husband. It was not just simply stated that Mrs. Long was out at that time without mentioning the purpose.

      This Georgina Green's "purpose" for being out at that time is not mentioned. It might be a case of the woman not being asked why she was out and about at that time...and we don't know the exact time.

      The point here, just in case it seems that Nina's point is a little blurry, is that Victorian era papers would more than likely be found mentioning what a victim or what a woman was doing if she was out and about by herself in similar circumstances as found in this obscure Green incident.
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      • #18
        Bump up...
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        • #19
          How, I don't understand this but there definitely seems to be a problem with the dating of that pdf extract you posted in this thread which included the Green stabbing.
          This was dated May 6, 1888. Last night I accessed the copy of Lloyd's Weekly for that date - as you said 12 pages. The issue was complete and I read it from cover to cover and there is no mention of this case. I can only assume that the extract you posted is date stamped incorrectly.
          Chris

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          • #20
            Below is the 1881 listing for George and Georgina Green. They are listed as living at 29 Flower and Dean Street.
            Chris

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Chris Scott View Post
              How, I don't understand this but there definitely seems to be a problem with the dating of that pdf extract you posted in this thread which included the Green stabbing.
              This was dated May 6, 1888. Last night I accessed the copy of Lloyd's Weekly for that date - as you said 12 pages. The issue was complete and I read it from cover to cover and there is no mention of this case. I can only assume that the extract you posted is date stamped incorrectly.
              Chris

              Hi Chris, it is the right date for the edition of Lloyds in the newspaperarchive.com. I just checked it again now. The British library editions of Lloyd's are different, I'm assuming you checked that edition?
              This is what How was explaining earlier in the thread, it's come up a lot lately with exclusives found in that particular edition.

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              • #22
                Hi Debs
                Ah - that would explain it but it is still odd why the two archives would have different version - unless one of them did not include the Sunday specials of lloyds which were summarised in the following week's edition
                Chris

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                • #23
                  I have no idea about how the different editions worked, to be honest, Chris

                  It was doing my head in at the beginning before I realised!
                  I know there are certain articles that appeared in the newspapersrchive. com version of Lloyd's that don't appear in any of the BL digitized versions of Lloyd's, not even at a later date.

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                  • #24
                    Thanks Debs
                    I must admit I have let my Newspaperarchive membership lapse as I was having so many problems both searching and downloading
                    Chris

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Chris Scott View Post
                      Thanks Debs
                      I must admit I have let my Newspaperarchive membership lapse as I was having so many problems both searching and downloading
                      Chris
                      Lol, it tries my patience too!

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                      • #26
                        Chris and Debs:

                        Hi Debs
                        Ah - that would explain it but it is still odd why the two archives would have different versions - unless one of them did not include the Sunday specials of lloyds which were summarised in the following week's edition

                        Just in case there is any confusion remaining which Debs didn't already explain, Chris... the British Library has the regular Sunday edition for that date and the Newspaper Archive has the Early Sunday edition.
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                        • #27
                          I've browsed the 1891 Census for Flower & Dean Street. There's no number 29 listed as was previously for the 1881 Census where George and Georgina Green were living.

                          The nearest property in 1891 is 31 Flower and Dean Street (44 to 33 are listed as unoccupied), where George Bacon, a Deputy born in Bethnal Green, together with his wife and daughter are living. This is on Page 46; Schedule Number 174. The next page is Folio 140, Page 47 with Schedule 175 for 13 & 14 Flower and Dean Street, Lodging Houses. Henry Johnson, Boarder, Married, Aged 40, a Hawker, born Derby is the first person listed.

                          Before Flower and Dean Street is listed Brick Lane and after is Dale's Place and then Thrawl Street, for which the pages are partially damaged.

                          I've also done a brief search for the other families listed at 29 Flower and Dean Street in 1881; Henry Gadd, Alex Yorke, Thomas Philpot, Frank Smith, George Harrison and Alfred Sullivan, but no luck there, either.

                          This is the Description for the Enumeration District in 1891;

                          Part of the Civil Parish, of Christ Church Comprising the East Side of Commercial Street from Fashion Street to Wentworth Street; the South Side of Fashion Street, with New Court, Fashion Court, Rosemary Court and Nelson Court; the West Side of Brick Lane from Fashion Street to Wentworth Street, with Flower & Dean Street and Dale's Place; Thrawl Street, George Street, and George Court; the north side of Wentworth Street from Brick Lane to George Street Including 1750 Lodgers in the Several Registered Common Lodging Houses within the area (excluding Lolesworth Buildings, Rothschild's Building & Strafford Houses)

                          The whole in the Whitechapel Division of the Borough of the Tower Hamlets

                          Note George Court is approached through no 6 George Street


                          Searching freebmd.org.uk for a marriage between George Green & Georgina (or Georgiana) only bring these results :

                          Marriages Dec 1871
                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Barnett Eliza Croydon 2a 390
                          Cramp Joseph Croydon 2a 390
                          Green William George Croydon 2a 390
                          Wells Georgiana Eliza Croydon 2a 390

                          Marriages Mar 1890
                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Crowe Georgina Freebridge L. 4b 469
                          GREEN George Henry Freebridge L. 4b 469

                          Marriages Jun 1891
                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Cordy Maria Norwich 4b 273
                          Green Charles Edward Norwich 4b 273
                          Green Geogina Norwich 4b 273
                          Green Georgina Norwich 4b 273
                          Ireland William Norwich 4b 273

                          Marriages Dec 1898
                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          GREEN George Christchurch 2b 1497
                          HARDY Georgina Christchurch 2b 1497
                          which probably means, in all likelihood, that our George & Georgina Green weren't legally married, in which case Georgiana, who was born in Walworth, Surrey could be Georgina Chandler, Georgina Pannell, both of whom are single and living in St Marylebone Parish in 1891 or ?

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                          • #28
                            Good effort, Nashwan !
                            I've neglected to follow up on this incident and the woman involved.
                            Your efforts are appreciated....
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                            • #29
                              From the London Workhouse Admission and Discharge Registers available via Ancestry:

                              in April 1883, there was a Georgina Green, widow, aged 30, with children John (11), Henry (8) and Georgina (2) were admitted to the workhouse at Britton Street (or Britten Street) St Luke's Chelsea.

                              in April 1884, Georgina Green, aged 26, of 52 Flower & Dean Street, Single, Bedmaker, ... Hand?, Church of England, was discharged from a workhouse in Stepney.

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                              • #30
                                Thanks Nash !
                                Long time no see....I hope all is well.
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